Reverse Engineering Metamagic Rods

[tigycho]

I've noticed that several portions fo the hive mind are quite talented at the magic item creation rules for 3.5, and hoped to get some help.

What I'd like for my character to be able to do is create one time use equivalents of the metamagic rods.

For example, rather than creating a rod that allows me to maximize a spell of level level 3 or less (lesser maximize metamagic rod - cost 14.000 gp), I wonder what it would cost to make a single use lesser metamagic item...

I was envisioning my wizard holding up a small gem which holds the power, the gem being destroyed in the use.

According to the SRD, metamagic rods are use-activated, and function 3/x per day.

I don't know, though, what the magic item cost ought to be for the ability to use a feat once, so I don't know where to go with all this.

Any advice on this would be appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[dcollins]

You should look at Unearthed Arcana, p. 139, "Metamagic Components".

 

[Diirk]

If you wanted to go by the SRD, however then:

"Charges per day - Divide by (5 divided by charges per day) "

So for a Lesser Maximise 3/day being 14000 gp, the base price would be 23,333 gp (we multiply not divide, as we're working backwards). From here, we can see that a 50 charged item would cost half this, so 11667 gp.. So perhaps a single use item would cost 1/50 of that ? This would make it 233 gp (round it up and call it 250).

I'd be very careful of that tho, making it this cheap also puts it in the hands of lower level characters, and allows people to use it many more than the 3/day limit of the rod. It also makes it alot easier just to buy a couple of them for those once in a while type situations where you really need it, but couldn't justify a rod for.

Given that the item creation rules are only rough guidelines anyway, I'd suggest it might be better to just come up with a price by yourself that seems right, and stick with that instead.

 

[Pinotage]

I implemented this in one of my games, and simply used scroll prices for the metamagic enhanced spell as a general guideline. So, to maximise a 1st level spell requires a 4th level slot and a 700 gp item. The rods, IMHO, are very underpriced for what they allow you to do. From Diirk's reverse engineering, 250 gp for an equivalent 6th level spell slot to maximise a fireball is just far too little. Of course, the items weren't as versatile as those suggested by Diirk, but it was simple and easy to use them.

Pinotage

 

[Elric]

I doubt there is an easy way to find good price for these kinds of items, especially for higher level spell slots.

A one-shot Gem of Quicken spell(normal), for example, is an incredibly powerful item because with no (spellcasting) Haste in 3.5, this would be a way to cast 2 spells a round when you needed it most. Any pricing formula that put this thing at 1000 gp, for example, would result in it being a very common item for pushing your power.

At the same time, pricing it for its increase in your character's temporary power level might lead to a higher cost, like 5000 gp. At this cost, only the highest level characters would have enough resources to use them at all and the item would become virtually useless at all other levels. By the time you could afford one of these, you might as well pick up the metamagic Rod of Quicken itself (and having one around for emergencies is an expensive luxury).

If you notice, 3.5 has shortened the durations of the buff spells and gotten rid of Haste, which makes it much harder for a spellcaster to translate limited use resources (spell/day) into game power (higher stats, more spells/round). A gem giving you access to Lesser Maximize would be less subject to this “limited use but power increasing” problem, since the Rod of Lesser Maximize is not very expensive for most characters (unlike the Rod of normal Quickening). However, at 250 gp I would see almost every spellcaster picking a few up, even if they already had a related rod (like Lesser Empowerment), just because having the extra power when you need it most is such a valuable ability.

Since extra gold pieces varies dramatically across levels, I would think that these items would always be hard to price. While you may come up with a relatively balanced price for an 8th level party, that doesn’t imply that the same price would be balanced at 13th level.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

I would base it off of a potion price vs. use activated item price.

The "normal" 5 times per day item would be 23,333 gp, as calculated above.

A vanilla use activated item is (<spell lvl> * <caster lvl>) * 2000.
So, for this item (<spell lvl> * <caster lvl>) = 23,333/2000 = 11.67.

A potion costs (<spell lvl> * <caster lvl>) * 50.
So the single use item would cost 583.3 gp.

That sounds a little cheap, but it is based on the ratio between a n times per day item and a potion. If it is too cheap, then the standard metamagic rod price is probably too cheap as well.

 

[andargor]

We can form a single united body, while the enemy must split up into fractions. Hence there will be a whole pitted against separate parts of a whole, which means that we shall be many to the enemy's few.
...
Concentrate your energy and hoard your strength.

This very simple principle about concentration of force, in my opinion, provides somewhat of a warning and a guideline for creating magic items of this sort, notwithstanding straight calculations.

Having an inexpensive and disposable way to metamagic any spell allows a caster to hoard them until a crucial encounter, or use them carefully but with a lot of oompf to spare at the right moment.

In any case, far more power concentrated at any one time that would normally be possible with a rod of metamagic.

Of course, the counter argument is scrolls or wands, but those have specific spells that can be unloaded at any one time, whereas metamagic can be applied to the right spell at the right time.

So, IMHO, that should be considered in the pricing.

Andargor

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Having an inexpensive and disposable way to metamagic any spell allows a caster to hoard them until a crucial encounter, or use them carefully but with a lot of oompf to spare at the right moment.

Another counterargument: This is merely the just reward for successfully executing superb tactics. If you hoard valuable resources for the right moment, you deserve what you get...extra risk in the easy battles and less risk in the tougher battles.

If it were trivial to divine how battles will unfold then Clerics and PsiWarriors are better than Fighters and Barbarians hands down. The optimal time unload with the Big Gun is the round before the battle turns unexpectedly against you. That is tough to read in the tea leaves.

I agree that one should consider carefully allowing cheap items that stack too easily. The implicit limitation in the metamagicking is that low levels spells themselves get tired as you go up in levels. ~600 gp may not seem like a lot to a 9th level PC, but 54 points of fire damage is not necessarily a lot to a CR 9 creature either.

 

[green slime]

The prices form the metamagic rods as listed in the 3.5 DMG are far too cheap. This has been reiterated many times by those who have actually looked over the pricing. They were more expensive in Tome & Blood. Why they were reduced in price is beyond me. IMC, we still use the old prices for these items.

 

[green slime]

Level
Adjustment Lesser  Normal  Greater
+1           1       4        9
+2           3      12       27
+3           5      20       45
+4           7      28       63

The above table approxiamtes the changes you see in the pricing of Metamagic Rods, according to Spell level adjustment (due to metamagic feat) and power level (Lesser, Normal, or Greater metamagic rods). This price structure was more clear in Tome and Blood. In order to find the price of your metamagic rod, you check what level adjustment the feat incurs, crosscheck it with the magnitude of the rod (lesser, normal, or greater), and multiply by your base price.

In 3.0's Tome and Blood, the "base price" for a was 5,400 gp (you can argue various ways how they reached this price). In 3.0, the base price was almost halved to 3,000 gp, and yet the Lesser Metamagic Rod of Quickening barely budged in price downwards.

Metamagic Rods are horrifically difficult to price fairly. Using the above guidelines you can at least extrapolate the price of other non-standard metamagic rods, should you decide to introduce them into your campaign.

Level
Adjustment Lesser  Normal  Greater
+5           9       36        81
+6          11      44       99
+7          13      52      117
+8          15      60      135

Regarding the pricing of single use items, I can also recommend a reading of metamagic components from unearthed Arcana. For instance, the price of quickening a spell varies not only according to which spell level the spell is, but also varies according to which spell is to be cast (which, IMO, is far too complicated).