Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
Archive Forums
Hosted Forums
Personal & Hosted Forums
Personal/Hosted Forums
The Society of 3.5 Revisionists
Revised cleric (concept only)
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Kerrick" data-source="post: 4517308" data-attributes="member: 4722"><p>Ah. I've got a different idea about that (see below).</p><p></p><p></p><p>I see... but I don't want to make them too much like the paladin - that would defeat the purpose. A Crusader should have greater spellcasting power than a paladin, but less combat ability.</p><p></p><p></p><p>True, though I <a href="http://shtar.pbwiki.com/Turning" target="_blank">fixed turning</a> a long time ago to deal with that. I'm leaning toward giving Crusaders the smite ability instead of turning undead, since it is more their province.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I suppose so, yeah. Smiting undead just sounds a lot more like something a paladin would do, not a necromancer. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" /></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yeah. I like to think that a good DM would take control of things like that and not let the player abuse them, but I see a lot of DMs who seemingly can't say no. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite3" alt=":(" title="Frown :(" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":(" /></p><p></p><p></p><p>Heh. Actually... I bumped raise dead and resurrection up a couple levels - 6th and 9th, respectively. True res is now a grand ritual, accessible at epic levels - that spell is way too powerful. Contingent resurrection, BTW, is an epic spell.</p><p></p><p></p><p>As for my idea... I came up with it this morning and thought it over at work to bash out some of the kinks, though I'm sure I missed a couple things. I found a way to include the minor/lesser/greater access, by making it similar to wizard specializations. Instead of losing a whole bunch of spells, though, all clerics start with minor access to all spells. I had to change the levels at which you gain abilities to accommodate this - it's now 1st, 5th, 9th, 13th, and 17th.</p><p></p><p>At L5 (the first step), they gain lesser access to all but two schools; at L13 (the fourth step), they gain greater access to all but one school, and lesser access to one of their minor schools. </p><p></p><p>So, it looks something like this: </p><p></p><p>Crusader: L2: Lesser access to all but Divination and Necromancy*; L4: gains lesser access to Necromancy.</p><p></p><p>Healer: L2: Lesser access to all but Evocation and Transmutation; L4: lesser access to Transmutation. (Evil healers are often called necromancers, since they deal with negative energy and the undead moreso than healing people.)</p><p></p><p>Priest: L2: Lesser access to all but Evocation and Necromancy; L4: Lesser access to Necromancy.</p><p></p><p>*Necromancy now includes all healing spells - I put them back where they belong.</p><p></p><p>The only problem I can see (and it may not actually BE a problem) is combining two paths. Let's say you have a 17th level cleric, a Crusader 3/Necromancer 2 (that is, he's taken three steps along the Crusader path and 2 on the Healer path). He has lesser access to all schools (you use the higher path's access), but greater access to nothing.</p><p></p><p>So (and this is something I just thought of), I'm thinking a cleric's levels in any path stack for purposes of determining spell access. Since Abjuration, Conjuration, and Enchantment are unrestricted on both lists, he gets greater access to those (I left Illusion out because there are no clerical illusion spells), and lesser access to Divination, Evocation, Necromancy, and Transmutation (since none of those are restricted on the other path's list - if he'd taken Healer and Priest, he would be limited to minor access in Evocation). With his class abilities, this could be a fairly strong PC without being overpowered (though it really depends on said abilities, and I'd have to make an actual PC to see how it would work in practice).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Kerrick, post: 4517308, member: 4722"] Ah. I've got a different idea about that (see below). I see... but I don't want to make them too much like the paladin - that would defeat the purpose. A Crusader should have greater spellcasting power than a paladin, but less combat ability. True, though I [url=http://shtar.pbwiki.com/Turning]fixed turning[/url] a long time ago to deal with that. I'm leaning toward giving Crusaders the smite ability instead of turning undead, since it is more their province. I suppose so, yeah. Smiting undead just sounds a lot more like something a paladin would do, not a necromancer. :p Yeah. I like to think that a good DM would take control of things like that and not let the player abuse them, but I see a lot of DMs who seemingly can't say no. :( Heh. Actually... I bumped raise dead and resurrection up a couple levels - 6th and 9th, respectively. True res is now a grand ritual, accessible at epic levels - that spell is way too powerful. Contingent resurrection, BTW, is an epic spell. As for my idea... I came up with it this morning and thought it over at work to bash out some of the kinks, though I'm sure I missed a couple things. I found a way to include the minor/lesser/greater access, by making it similar to wizard specializations. Instead of losing a whole bunch of spells, though, all clerics start with minor access to all spells. I had to change the levels at which you gain abilities to accommodate this - it's now 1st, 5th, 9th, 13th, and 17th. At L5 (the first step), they gain lesser access to all but two schools; at L13 (the fourth step), they gain greater access to all but one school, and lesser access to one of their minor schools. So, it looks something like this: Crusader: L2: Lesser access to all but Divination and Necromancy*; L4: gains lesser access to Necromancy. Healer: L2: Lesser access to all but Evocation and Transmutation; L4: lesser access to Transmutation. (Evil healers are often called necromancers, since they deal with negative energy and the undead moreso than healing people.) Priest: L2: Lesser access to all but Evocation and Necromancy; L4: Lesser access to Necromancy. *Necromancy now includes all healing spells - I put them back where they belong. The only problem I can see (and it may not actually BE a problem) is combining two paths. Let's say you have a 17th level cleric, a Crusader 3/Necromancer 2 (that is, he's taken three steps along the Crusader path and 2 on the Healer path). He has lesser access to all schools (you use the higher path's access), but greater access to nothing. So (and this is something I just thought of), I'm thinking a cleric's levels in any path stack for purposes of determining spell access. Since Abjuration, Conjuration, and Enchantment are unrestricted on both lists, he gets greater access to those (I left Illusion out because there are no clerical illusion spells), and lesser access to Divination, Evocation, Necromancy, and Transmutation (since none of those are restricted on the other path's list - if he'd taken Healer and Priest, he would be limited to minor access in Evocation). With his class abilities, this could be a fairly strong PC without being overpowered (though it really depends on said abilities, and I'd have to make an actual PC to see how it would work in practice). [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
Archive Forums
Hosted Forums
Personal & Hosted Forums
Personal/Hosted Forums
The Society of 3.5 Revisionists
Revised cleric (concept only)
Top