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Revised cleric (concept only)
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<blockquote data-quote="Kerrick" data-source="post: 4521801" data-attributes="member: 4722"><p>True on both counts. I fixed the former by making the paladin a generic "holy warrior" class. I almost renamed it the champion, but I decided to stick with paladin. They get auras, kind of like the knight (I borrowed a couple ideas from Pathfinder), lay on hands, and their cure disease/etc. thing is split out into a divine touch - it scales, so as they gain levels, they can cure/inflict disease, ability damage, and levels. I might give them another level of spells and expand their list a bit; by buffing up their power, we can get them on a par with fighters, and obviate the need for a Crusader cleric and just have Healer and Priest (the priest of a war god can have <em>some</em> combat ability, but not nearly on a par with the paladin or fighter).</p><p></p><p>The only thing is, we don't want to make the cleric a "why should I play <em>this</em>?" class - they should be fun and interesting to play and be able to pull their weight in a party. Having only two choices for paths limits customization a bit, even with the priest's broad range of potential abilities. </p><p></p><p></p><p>Agreed.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Yeah, the spells are what make or break them, really. Reducing their armor prof to medium or light helps a bit, too, as well as the two good saves and the d8 HD. So, by dropping the HD to d6, the armor prof to light (with the option to improve it), it nerfs their power quite a lot without removing the spells that fit their general archetype of "healer, helper, smiter of beings opposed to the church". Limiting their choice of spells (like I did) should also help curb their power. </p><p></p><p></p><p>So are you splitting it into two classes, or making two paths for the same class? And what about the healer-type cleric?</p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes. I'm doing that by letting them spontaneously cast domain spells instead of cure/inflict spells.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Amen. Not all clerics of all gods should be able to turn undead. I was going to give Crusaders the smite power, Healers turn/command undead as normal, and Priests turn undead also, but I could let Priests (who are the most "general" cleric) gain another more relevant ability in place of it, at the DM's discretion. A cleric of the god of music and song, for instance, could get a minor bard song (fascinate, or something); a cleric of the god of magic would have a bonus to Knowledge (arcana) and Spellcraft, and be able to prepare cantrips in place of his orisons.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Eh... I'm not too keen on skill-based spellcasting. I did, however, change the ASF thing to a Concentration check and applied it to ALL classes (see <a href="http://shtar.pbwiki.com/Armor" target="_blank">here</a>.</p><p></p><p>---</p><p></p><p>I actually had an idea this morning - we keep the paths, but give them mutiple choices at each step, like I did with the monk. This will allow for greater customization and focus without, hopefully, breaking anything. I think I'll scale the number of steps back to 4, since that would make less work for me (even though some abilities will overlap).</p><p></p><p>So what we've got:</p><p></p><p>Crusader: Weapon Focus (god's weapon); Enemy of the Faith (as favored enemy with slightly different skill bonuses, applies to a chosen enemy of the church)</p><p></p><p>Healer: Chosen target (can choose a living [or undead, for evil healers] creature at the beginning of an encounter; for the duration of that encounter, as long as the creature is within 10 ft./2 levels and the cleric can see it, he can heal it with a healing spell at range); increased healing (cure disease, remove curse, etc. - this ties into a variant disease/poison system); healing burst; and, of course, turn undead.</p><p></p><p>Priest: Aura of faith (3/day, can create an aura of his alignment axis - good/law/chaos/evil - that grants bonuses to those of similar alignment/faith around him, kind of like a magic circle); turn undead; banish outsider (as turn undead, applied to outsiders); voice of god (not sure what this does exactly - it's a high-level ability that lets the cleric speak with the voice of his god, cowing those around him temporarily and granting those of similar faith bonuses).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Kerrick, post: 4521801, member: 4722"] True on both counts. I fixed the former by making the paladin a generic "holy warrior" class. I almost renamed it the champion, but I decided to stick with paladin. They get auras, kind of like the knight (I borrowed a couple ideas from Pathfinder), lay on hands, and their cure disease/etc. thing is split out into a divine touch - it scales, so as they gain levels, they can cure/inflict disease, ability damage, and levels. I might give them another level of spells and expand their list a bit; by buffing up their power, we can get them on a par with fighters, and obviate the need for a Crusader cleric and just have Healer and Priest (the priest of a war god can have [I]some[/I] combat ability, but not nearly on a par with the paladin or fighter). The only thing is, we don't want to make the cleric a "why should I play [i]this[/i]?" class - they should be fun and interesting to play and be able to pull their weight in a party. Having only two choices for paths limits customization a bit, even with the priest's broad range of potential abilities. Agreed. Yeah, the spells are what make or break them, really. Reducing their armor prof to medium or light helps a bit, too, as well as the two good saves and the d8 HD. So, by dropping the HD to d6, the armor prof to light (with the option to improve it), it nerfs their power quite a lot without removing the spells that fit their general archetype of "healer, helper, smiter of beings opposed to the church". Limiting their choice of spells (like I did) should also help curb their power. So are you splitting it into two classes, or making two paths for the same class? And what about the healer-type cleric? Yes. I'm doing that by letting them spontaneously cast domain spells instead of cure/inflict spells. Amen. Not all clerics of all gods should be able to turn undead. I was going to give Crusaders the smite power, Healers turn/command undead as normal, and Priests turn undead also, but I could let Priests (who are the most "general" cleric) gain another more relevant ability in place of it, at the DM's discretion. A cleric of the god of music and song, for instance, could get a minor bard song (fascinate, or something); a cleric of the god of magic would have a bonus to Knowledge (arcana) and Spellcraft, and be able to prepare cantrips in place of his orisons. Eh... I'm not too keen on skill-based spellcasting. I did, however, change the ASF thing to a Concentration check and applied it to ALL classes (see [url=http://shtar.pbwiki.com/Armor]here[/url]. --- I actually had an idea this morning - we keep the paths, but give them mutiple choices at each step, like I did with the monk. This will allow for greater customization and focus without, hopefully, breaking anything. I think I'll scale the number of steps back to 4, since that would make less work for me (even though some abilities will overlap). So what we've got: Crusader: Weapon Focus (god's weapon); Enemy of the Faith (as favored enemy with slightly different skill bonuses, applies to a chosen enemy of the church) Healer: Chosen target (can choose a living [or undead, for evil healers] creature at the beginning of an encounter; for the duration of that encounter, as long as the creature is within 10 ft./2 levels and the cleric can see it, he can heal it with a healing spell at range); increased healing (cure disease, remove curse, etc. - this ties into a variant disease/poison system); healing burst; and, of course, turn undead. Priest: Aura of faith (3/day, can create an aura of his alignment axis - good/law/chaos/evil - that grants bonuses to those of similar alignment/faith around him, kind of like a magic circle); turn undead; banish outsider (as turn undead, applied to outsiders); voice of god (not sure what this does exactly - it's a high-level ability that lets the cleric speak with the voice of his god, cowing those around him temporarily and granting those of similar faith bonuses). [/QUOTE]
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