Revised wizard

[Hereticus]

The goal is to have everyone have at least some small thing they can do at will. The fighter can swing a weapon at will.

I liked the 4.0E system for Cantrips so much... I dumped the 3.5E version and stole it (with some mods).

Cantrips: These are minor at-will magical spells that effect the five senses in a minor way.

Ghost Sound: You can create an illusionary sound as quiet as a whisper or as loud as a yell to emanate from a target or location (range 120 feet). You can produce non-vocal sounds such as the ringing of a sword blow, jingling armor, or scraping stone. You can whisper quietly enough that only creatures adjacent to your target can hear your words. You can only create sound at one location at a time.

Light: You cause a target or location to emanate a light (white or any hue) up to midday daylight in brightness. The light fills a five-foot sphere, and extends 30 feet in all directions. The light lasts as long as you concentrate on it, or up to one minute per level after you stop concentrating. Extinguishing the light is a free action. You can have only one light cantrip active at a time. If you create a new light, your previously cast light winks out. Darkness can also be substituted for light, but only in a five-foot sphere. In a well-lit area the darkness is only as dark as a starry night, but can be pitch black in an already dark area.

Mage Hand: You can conjure a spectral, floating hand that can move up to 30 feet away from you. The hand can pick up, move, or manipulate objects weighing up to 20 pounds and move them anywhere within that range (minor action). The maximum speed the hand can move is 30 ft/rd. If you are holding an object, the hand can move the object into a pack, a pouch, a sheath, or a similar container and simultaneously move any one object carried or worn anywhere on your body into your hand. You can sustain the hand indefinitely, but can create only one hand at a time.

Prestidigitation: You can perform amusing magic tricks that fool the senses, such as create dancing wisps of light, freshen a wilting flower, create an illusion (one foot cube), make a small object invisible, warm a cold drink, change the taste and smell of a food, etc.

 

[Kerrick]

Is the strict vancian system necessary?
I mean, is this a retrocompatible revision or a simple revision (i hope)?
We can try a power point (psionic-like) system for magic, which retains a bit of compatibility but it's not as strict as the vancian-as-is.
The wizard should have then some kind of bonus when preparing spells from a book (or something like this).

I'm one of those folks who never saw anything wrong with the Vancian system. I've seen/used other systems over the years (including psionics), but I stick with it. My wizard is pretty much a simple revision - not a lot changed, except that it gets more abilities based on specialization (a reason to specialize beyond "Oh boy, extra spells!").

I liked the 4.0E system for Cantrips so much... I dumped the 3.5E version and stole it (with some mods).

Those are pretty much the same as 3.5's... they just spruced up the descriptions a bit. Mage hand is definitely better, but I don't think a 0-level spell should be able to move that much weight.

I do, however, like the unlimited cantrips thing - it makes spellcasters a lot more viable and helps eliminate the 15-minute adventuring day. I stole that idea too.

 

[Hereticus]

I'm one of those folks who never saw anything wrong with the Vancian system. I've seen/used other systems over the years (including psionics), but I stick with it. My wizard is pretty much a simple revision - not a lot changed, except that it gets more abilities based on specialization (a reason to specialize beyond "Oh boy, extra spells!").

By "vancian", is that the system where you have to state precisely which spells you will be using the next day?

We scrapped that, because most Wizards and Clerics never had the right spells at crunch time, and were near useless.

Those are pretty much the same as 3.5's... they just spruced up the descriptions a bit. Mage hand is definitely better, but I don't think a 0-level spell should be able to move that much weight.

I agree... I argued for five pounds but was overruled. That came out of the 4.0Ed rules. It was more to me to get what I wanted in other descriptions, like additional range. 4.0Ed spells have horrible ranges.

Speaking of descriptions, we keep a text file of all spells. It includes additional situational details, DM rulings, and interesting uses. We have a whole book on Mord's Mansion, what can be created, and how it reacts with other spells cast inside and out.

I do, however, like the unlimited cantrips thing - it makes spellcasters a lot more viable and helps eliminate the 15-minute adventuring day. I stole that idea too.

Exactly, unlimited cantrips are great.

 

[Hereticus]

Maybe it's not a whole book, but here are some of our detailed spell descriptions. As a group we vote on rule interpretations, because the book just does not give sufficient details on every possible situation. It is important to be consistent.

Magic Pocket [01]: This spell creates a temporary extra-dimensional pocket that can be used to store objects. It can be cast into a solid object or a non-living fabric with some flexibility. No matter how full the pocket is, it weighs only 5 pounds. The pocket is a one foot cube (1 cuft) and can hold up to 25 pounds. You (only the caster) can open or close the pocket at will, and the pocket can be opened up to its maximum size. It can not be closed if a solid object is blocking the barrier. The magic pocket lasts one day and will continue to function the next day and use up the same spell slot unless you cancel it or change the spell level (changing its size). A magic pocket made smaller may have items pushed out of it.

Rope Trick [02]: This spell is cast upon a piece of rope five or more feet long (up to an additional foot per caster level), one end of the rope rises into the air until the whole rope hangs upward perpendicular to the ground, as if affixed to the center of an invisible extra-dimensional portal. The portal is a minimum of three feet in diameter, and can be up to one foot in diameter per caster level (determined at time of casting). The extra-dimensional space can hold up to four plus one additional creature per caster level. Large creatures count double, huge creatures count quadruple, and so forth. But the creature entering the portal must be able to fit through the opening. Any creature can climb the rope (or fly) and enter the extra-dimensional space, as long as there is capacity inside. Creatures can pull the rope up into the space, thereby hiding the portal from most observers. The rope can support up to 16,000 pounds, a weight greater than that can pull the rope free. Creatures inside the extra-dimensional space can see through the portal normally, but creatures outside the space can not see into it. Spells (including divinations) can not be cast through the portal, except spells that specifically work across planes. Environmental conditions, projectiles and area effects can not cross the portal, nor can creatures that are less than tiny in size. The caster determines the environmental conditions and lighting inside the extra-dimensional space at the time of casting. Anything inside the extra-dimensional space falls out when the spell ends. The rope can be climbed by only one person at a time. The rope trick spell enables climbers to reach a normal place if they do not climb all the way to the extra-dimensional space. The extra-dimensional space can be dispelled, ending the spell. Objects and spells pass through the portal normally in both directions. Creatures passing through the back end are magically pulled past it, as they can not exist with the extra-dimensional portal inside their body.

Extra-Dimensional Room [06]: This spell creates an extra-dimensional space that has a single stationary entry portal on the plane from which the spell was cast. The space is a ten foot cube, and the portal is a minimum of a three foot diameter circle, and can be any pattern up to one foot per level across up to the size of the space. Only those you designate (at casting) may enter (or exit) the space, and the portal is made invisible when closed. You may open or close the portal at will as long as you are inside the space or within casting range of the spell. Those not permitted to enter the portal are blocked by a wall of force when it is open. Once closed the portal is no longer a wall of force or visible, but it still exists as a non-dimensional magical effect and can be magically detected. If the portal is open anyone can see out through it normally (allowing gaze attacks to function normally), but not into it. No spell will work through the portal from either direction.
Anti-magic and dispel magic can open a closed portal from the outside, making it both visible and a wall of force. Disintegrate (cancellation, annihilation, etc) closes the portal, making it invisible, but has no other effect. You may still open or close the portal at will. Anti-magic and dispel magic have no effect on the contents of the mansion, but disintegrate does. Dimensional anchor and lock will temporarily block movement through the portal, but the portal still exists. Disjunction cast on the portal from the outside temporarily destroys the portal (open or closed), but has no effect on the contents of the mansion except that the portal is barred. The portal is recreated in one hour, or at the end of the spell. Disjunction cast from inside of the mansion instantly ends the spell and effects its entire content.
The interior space is empty, and the caster determines the environmental conditions and lighting inside the extra-dimensional space at the time of casting. Anything inside the extra-dimensional space falls out when the spell ends.

Extra-Dimensional Mansion [07]: This spell is similar to Extra-Dimensional Room, except that the space can be as large as five feet per level square by one foot per level high. Once observers pass through the entrance portal, they are in a magnificent foyer with numerous chambers beyond, and the atmosphere is clean, fresh, and warm (or per the will of the caster). Any floor plan can be created to the limit of the spell’s effect and decorated as desired, but it can not be altered once initially created. The mansion can be furnished as desired and contains sufficient foodstuffs to serve a nine-course banquet to a dozen people per caster level. A staff of near-transparent servants (as many as two per caster level), liveried and obedient, wait upon all who enter. The servants function as Unseen Servant spells except that they are visible and can go anywhere in the mansion. Since the mansion can be entered only through its magic portal, outside conditions do not affect the mansion, nor do conditions inside it pass to the plane beyond. Damage caused inside the mansion is real. The extra-dimensional mansion will continue to exist if the caster decides to use an additional spell slot during the duration of the spell, as long as that spell slot is available.

 

[Kerrick]

Maybe it's not a whole book, but here are some of our detailed spell descriptions. As a group we vote on rule interpretations, because the book just does not give sufficient details on every possible situation. It is important to be consistent.

Yeah... but covering every possible situation leads to really large spell descriptions. Speaking from a designer POV, it's best to just cover the most common ones and let the individual groups figure out any problems.

You (only the caster) can open or close the pocket at will, and the pocket can be opened up to its maximum size. It can not be closed if a solid object is blocking the barrier.

See, I don't see the point of having stuff like this in the description - it's common sense, and unnecessary.

The magic pocket lasts one day and will continue to function the next day and use up the same spell slot unless you cancel it or change the spell level (changing its size).

That's... odd. Is this a function of your alt magic system?

The extra-dimensional space can hold up to four plus one additional creature per caster level. Large creatures count double, huge creatures count quadruple, and so forth.

Heh, I did this with my revision of rope trick. Being able to fit 8 creatures of any size was just all kinds of broken.

But the creature entering the portal must be able to fit through the opening. Any creature can climb the rope (or fly) and enter the extra-dimensional space, as long as there is capacity inside.

Well yeah....

Spells (including divinations) can not be cast through the portal, except spells that specifically work across planes.

So you're treating it as pocket dimension, not an extradimensional space?

The rope can be climbed by only one person at a time.

Not sure why it's necessary to mention this...

The extra-dimensional space can be dispelled, ending the spell. Objects and spells pass through the portal normally in both directions.

Duh.

Creatures passing through the back end are magically pulled past it, as they can not exist with the extra-dimensional portal inside their body.

Wait, what? The rope ends at the portal - if you go any further, you crawl into the space. You can't go "through" the portal.

This spell is similar to Extra-Dimensional Room, except that the space can be as large as five feet per level square by one foot per level high.

What was wrong with "Three 10-ft. cubes per level?"

 

[Hereticus]

Yeah... but covering every possible situation leads to really large spell descriptions. Speaking from a designer POV, it's best to just cover the most common ones and let the individual groups figure out any problems.

To start that way would be burdensome, yeah. But to add to descriptions over years of play, not so much.

See, I don't see the point of having stuff like this in the description - it's common sense, and unnecessary.

What is there was added, because at some point it was questioned. Either on this spell or one like it.

That's... odd. Is this a function of your alt magic system?

Yes. Why do yo find it "odd"?

Well yeah....

You'd be surprised what some people have tried to justify, especailly when in trouble.

So you're treating it as pocket dimension, not an extradimensional space?

What is the difference?

Not sure why it's necessary to mention this...

It's a detail, that can be said for many different different spell descriptions in any handbook. Why object?

Duh.

Perhaps if you had read the later spells, you'd see what it is an important detail.

Wait, what? The rope ends at the portal - if you go any further, you crawl into the space. You can't go "through" the portal.

Here you have failed to read what I posted. You can not enter the portal from the back side.

What was wrong with "Three 10-ft. cubes per level?"

Nothing. What is wrong with what I wrote?

 

[Kerrick]

Sorry, didn't mean to come off so snarky.

To start that way would be burdensome, yeah. But to add to descriptions over years of play, not so much.

Yeah, I suppose so. You remind me of the person who posted a few years ago either here or on the Wizards boards about having a couple pages of text on the teleport spell - what you can and can't do, what happens in a given situation, etc. IMHO, a spell should say what it does and doesn't do, cover common loopholes, and let the DM adjudicate anything else. But that's just me.

What is there was added, because at some point it was questioned. Either on this spell or one like it.

Yeah, figured as much. You must have a group who likes to use spells in innovative ways. Nothing wrong with that - I played with a group who went through a tournament module (this was 2E) with... web on a dragonfly (using its wings as "opposing points"; the DM allowed it for some reason), whereupon it fell into the lake below and drowned; mud to rock to soften the floor beneath what were obviously gargoyles on pedestals, then dispel to trap them (that was actually good strategy), and several others I can't remember. It was rather interesting.

Yes. Why do yo find it "odd"?

Probably because I've never seen anything like it before. It's like a permanent contingent spell - permanent in that it lasts until dismissed, but contingent because it takes up a slot. It's actually kind of cool, now that I think about it - you can keep it in effect indefinitely, but it takes up a slot.

You'd be surprised what some people have tried to justify, especailly when in trouble.

See above.

What is the difference?

Depends who you ask, really. A demiplane is generally rather large and can have different characteristics than the Prime, whereas an extradimensional space is smaller and has the same ones.

Although, the PHB description does say that anyone inside is immune to divinations unless they work across planes... this would imply that the rope trick IS a demiplane, not an extradimensional space (or that an extradimensional space is actually a pocket dimension...). Of course, this is also the spell that mentions combining extradimensional spaces, the only place anywhere in the rules that does so. So, it's hard to call this one.

Aside: When I revised the rope trick spell, I stumbled across that line about bags of holding and rope tricks, so I decided to define nondimensional spaces and extradimensional spaces (what can I say, I'm weird).

An extradimensional space is self-contained, usually not connected to a specific portal, and can vary in size; it always has a volume limit, but not a weight limit, and it can be accessed via teleportation. Extradimensional spaces open into Ethereal plane (I think). A portable hole or magnificent mansion are extradimensional spaces.

A nondimensional space, OTOH, is simply a container that has more space that it should - said space is always specific in size, bound to the container's opening, and has a volume and weight limit. Nondimensional spaces open into the Astral plane (I think) and cannot be accessed by any means except through the portal. A bag of holding or a handy haversack are nondimensional.

It's a detail, that can be said for many different different spell descriptions in any handbook. Why object?

It's an unnecessary detail (IMO). Unnecessary details lead to rules-lawyering. Which is funny coming from me, since I was a notorious rules lawyer in my younger days (I've gotten better about it, but only through conscious effort). Just give the rope a weight limit and leave it at that. And yes, I'd say that even if it appeared in the PHB.

Perhaps if you had read the later spells, you'd see what it is an important detail.

I skimmed over them. But if rope trick is a pocket dimension, how is it different than extradimensional room or the mansion?

Here you have failed to read what I posted. You can not enter the portal from the back side.

Ah. I was thinking of a one-way portal that can't be seen or sensed from the other side, not something like a gate spell.

Nothing. What is wrong with what I wrote?

Nothing, per se; it's just that 10-ft. cubes are easier to work with vs. 5-ft. squares with variable heights. But, YMMV.

 

[Kerrick]

By "vancian", is that the system where you have to state precisely which spells you will be using the next day?

Pretty much, yeah. Prep spells beforehand, set slots/levels, etc.

We scrapped that, because most Wizards and Clerics never had the right spells at crunch time, and were near useless.

I play a wizard in our current campaign, and I've certainly run into that problem too. But... if you give everyone spontaneous casting, it makes the sorcerer superfluous. Which is fine if you ditched the sorcerer entirely, but I rather like them.

I agree... I argued for five pounds but was overruled. That came out of the 4.0Ed rules. It was more to me to get what I wanted in other descriptions, like additional range. 4.0Ed spells have horrible ranges.

Yeah they do. It's more like they're intended to be used as powers instead of actual spells.

 

[Hereticus]

Pretty much, yeah. Prep spells beforehand, set slots/levels, etc.

I play a wizard in our current campaign, and I've certainly run into that problem too. But... if you give everyone spontaneous casting, it makes the sorcerer superfluous. Which is fine if you ditched the sorcerer entirely, but I rather like them.

Yes, it did kill the Sorcerer... but this was a unanimous decision amongst a group of eight. Even the Fighters and Rogues were tired of incompetent spell casters who had too few of what spells the group needed.

Spell casters (Wizards especially) always had escape spells for themselves, but could not help the party enough. The non-spell casters were just as vocal in fixing this rule because it put their characters at more risk of death.