Revised wizard

[Hawken]

Its a ranged attack that I give to wizards basically. so they have soemthing to do when they cant/dont want to cast a spell.

Isn't that what their proficiency with a Light Crossbow is for? Better range, better damage, better critical threat range. Why even bother treading into Warlock territory (and the can of worms that comes with it) when the crossbow does so much better?

Plus there are other concerns you didn't mention? What type of energy is the blast? And why? Does it provoke an AoO? And, if not, why not? (If so, then you're definitely better off with a light crossbow!)

If you're wanting a magical attack, they can make one when they get enough for a wand of magic missiles or one of the orb spells. "Eldritch" energy is too powerful for unlimited usage. Its not physical damage so it bypasses DR, and its "eldritch", not fire or cold or something, so it ignores energy resistance. Spell Resistance should stop it but if you're facing creatures with SR at the low levels where that would come into play, you're likely going to get TPK'ed.

 

[Sylrae]

oh. we dont use warlocks (or psionics), and the point was to make the wizard more constantly accessible. > and one magic system is enough at once, IMO (we could use Psionics, theyre different enough to merit another system, but nobody in group ever brought it up

its untyped energy, like a magic weapon, it does NOT provoke attacks of opportunity, they can do it a number of times in a round = to their # or melee attacks,
And yeah it bypasses DR, that was intentional. and i suppose we could make it require an elemental type, thats no big. its an attack, not a spell, so SR has no more effect than it would against a magic sword. armor works though.

and thats why it has the low damage type. I considered dropping it to a d3, and myabe I should.

I suppose the cantrips as SAs unlimited per day is close to this, sortof, in that its a way to regularly do damage. they can still only cast 1 spell per round though, cantrip or no, and i was going for some sort of 'standard attack'.

 

[Hawken]

*Unlimited uses/day.
*No energy type.
*Bypasses DR.
*Bypasses SR.
*Ignores energy resistance.
*No attacks of opportunity.
*Not a spell, so cannot be interrupted/ruined.
*Damage increased by Int modifier.

There is no way I am the only one who sees how broken this is! Its not too far of a stretch to suppose that there are feats or abilities/items to enhance either the range or damage of this power, making it even more broken.

You haven't said yet whether its a ranged attack or a ranged touch attack. Go ahead and make it even more broken by using a ranged attack roll.

Just about everything has a foil. DR foils weapons, Resistance foils energy, SR foils spells. Armor is not a foil to attacks because BAB increases more than AC.

Maybe I'm out of line though. Maybe that power is appropriate for your game and no one minds, but it is an unbeatable ability abusing the rules and ripe for further abuse.

 

[Sylrae]

*Unlimited uses/day.
*No energy type.
*Bypasses DR. (d4 Damage Type)
*Bypasses SR.
*Ignores energy resistance.
*No attacks of opportunity.
*Not a spell, so cannot be interrupted/ruined.
*Damage increased by Int modifier.

hmm. Okay.
Bastard Sword
*Unlimited Uses/day
*No Energy Type
*d10 damage(Doesnt bypass DR)
*Ignores Energy Resistance
*No attacks of opportunity
*Not a spell
*Damage increased by STR.

Admittedly The Eldritch Jolt bypasses DR, but it has low damage, and spellcasters have a lower BAB than fighters. And yeah, its a ranged attack, not a touch attack (but it has a really short range). I dont really see it as much besides a weapon. can you explain what makes it broken? it doesnt overcome all DR, just the very weakest varieties (silver, magic, coldiron) a dr x/+1 still works the same.

Its like a bow but with worse damage, and worse crit range, worse range, and damage type magic.

If you have a better solution I'm listening, I just think the wizard needs a small, weak magic attack of some sort that adds int to damage, and that he can use as often as melee attacks. I'm all for slightly weakening the class somewhere else to compensate.

and yeah, a feat, or class ability, to increase the damage dice wouldnt be bad.

I dont mind giving the damage a type, like fire, cold, electric, etc. further weakening if if everyone thinks theres no way to make it fit power-wise, though I dont see how its overpowered now, as illustrated above.
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small clarification. The bolt comes from the palm of the hand . doesnt work if the wizard has something IN their hand (as the bolt just hits the thing in their hand) and it cant be aimed if the wizard has his hands tied together - though, as it will come up eventually, it can be used as a regular attack in a grapple, like you would use a claw.
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if its too powerful as is, give suggestions, dont just complain.





EDIT: I think we still use the DR rules from 3e, as I wasnt aware they had changed, and I'm the one running the game. lol. I'll look at this again tomorrow and look at the way 3.5 DR works.

 

[Kerrick]

EDIT: I think we still use the DR rules from 3e, as I wasnt aware they had changed, and I'm the one running the game. lol. I'll look at this again tomorrow and look at the way 3.5 DR works.

Rofl. Yeah, that's a big one - 3.5 DR doesn't use plusses; it's just DR /magic (which is really stupid, IMO, but that's another topic), so anything with a +1 or greater bonus bypasses it. I'd make it force damage just like magic missile - I thought that's what it was, a toned-down MM. Adding Int damage to the spell isn't too bad, IMO, though I'd likely drop it to 1d3. I kind of agree with hawken, though - whether it's an SLA or a spell, it provokes AoOs. What's the range on it? Is it a touch attack, or a 5-foot range, or what?

 

[Sylrae]

Rofl. Yeah, that's a big one - 3.5 DR doesn't use plusses; it's just DR /magic (which is really stupid, IMO, but that's another topic), so anything with a +1 or greater bonus bypasses it. I'd make it force damage just like magic missile - I thought that's what it was, a toned-down MM. Adding Int damage to the spell isn't too bad, IMO, though I'd likely drop it to 1d3. I kind of agree with hawken, though - whether it's an SLA or a spell, it provokes AoOs. What's the range on it? Is it a touch attack, or a 5-foot range, or what?

lol. I've said the range numerous times. It's a ranged attack (10 feet increment) (we used it with a max 20 feet), with no AoO provocation, because there is no penalty to using it in melee range. It's no harder to attack with than a sword. You can use it in a grapple, (because of how the attack logically works). It's an attack, not a spell. so you make a ranged attack roll, using dex, as normal. Spell Resistance is not applicable, because as mentioned, not a spell. (unless spell resistance works on magic weapon damage bonus, in which case, nevermind.)

I can agree with the lowering it to a 1d3. I'm not too sure what to do with the DR overcoming, cause it shouldnt overcome DR, unless youre in 3.0 in which case overcoming the weakest varieties of DR is fine. lol.

This isnt a wizard only thing, this is an arcane caster thing. so a sorcerer or bard has the same ability with Cha instead of Int to Damage.

I should note I have some widesweeping changes that will effect how the classes will need to be balanced (in my games at least).

Stats apply to things a bit differently. Skill points are based on int+wis+(1/2 listed class bonus) instead of int + class bonus. dex is used to hit for all attacks (not just for finesse weapons), and CHA is used for will saves. - this was to avoid CHA as a "dump stat" for half the classes.

All creatures (player and enemy, add their CON score to their hp. undead add whatever the con score was when alive.

Arcane Spell failure is skill based (dex & spellcraft) instead of a flat %, and Armored Caster/Improved Armored caster are feats which reduce the DC. The bard gets Armord Caster for free as his class feature.

Caster classes stack with other classes partially. 1/2 of all other HD/class levels add to your caster level, & spells per day, to a maximum of your level in the class.
So a fighter 10 Wizard 1 casts as a Wizard 2. A Fighter 6 Wizard 5 Casts as a Wizard 8. A Wizard 8 Cleric 8 casts both as level 12. This is so that multiclassing doesnt kill you as a caster. in the case of PrCs that add to caster level/spells known/per day, use the better value. (if less than half of the prc levels add to caster, use 1/2, else use its progression for those levels)

and then my Priests/Battlepriests will be using the alternate casting method i listed on the cleric page, but I havent written them up as classes yet so I've just been using the new casting mechanic on regular clerics...

and I'm not liking the 3.5 DR and will likely continue using 3.0 DR... Good thing I'm compiling all this stuff to pdf on my PC and then distributing to the players cDont want to confuse them too much.

 

[Kerrick]

lol. I've said the range numerous times. It's a ranged attack (10 feet increment) (we used it with a max 20 feet), with no AoO provocation, because there is no penalty to using it in melee range.

Oh. Somehow I missed that.

It's an attack, not a spell. so you make a ranged attack roll, using dex, as normal. Spell Resistance is not applicable, because as mentioned, not a spell. (unless spell resistance works on magic weapon damage bonus, in which case, nevermind.)

It's supernatural, right? And no, SR doesn't work against weapons.

I can agree with the lowering it to a 1d3. I'm not too sure what to do with the DR overcoming, cause it shouldnt overcome DR, unless youre in 3.0 in which case overcoming the weakest varieties of DR is fine. lol.

If it's magical, energy, or untyped damage, it would overcome DR. That's what makes it so powerful - even if you gave it an energy type, it would bypass DR (though not energy resistance). I guess if it works for your game, that's great.

 

[Sylrae]

Oh. Somehow I missed that.
It's supernatural, right? And no, SR doesn't work against weapons.

Supernatural yes, but I dont want it to be used like a spell or spell like ability, The point is that it works like a regular attack.

If it's magical, energy, or untyped damage, it would overcome DR. That's what makes it so powerful - even if you gave it an energy type, it would bypass DR (though not energy resistance). I guess if it works for your game, that's great.

Well in our game we have had more degrees of DR. lol. hmm. Assuming you use Degrees of DR, and not just silver, coldiron, and magic, is it balanced with the magic damage type? (the damage should still likely be reduced to d3 since you get to add int)

Assuming you're NOT using DR, you could make it a force weapon that moves a small quantity of air(or water) at extreme speeds, causing bashing (or piercing) damage. lol. In which case, I'd up the damage dice by 1 type.(to a d4).

alternatively, you could count as a magic weapon, in which case it overcomes dr x/magic, but not dr x/(anything else). no?

what do you think? give suggestions here. I dont want to have NO ability, but I dont want the ability to be uber and broken either.

 

[Hawken]

I don't mean to sound harsh, but go back to the drawing board on this one. An easy example of brokenness for your eldritch jolt is the following character:

Drow Fighter 12/Ranger 5/Wizard 1/Frenzied Berserker 2
20th level character.
Str 14 Dex 23 Con 12 Int 30 Wis 10 Cha 12
He takes Greater Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Specialization, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Far Shot, Shot on the Run, Improved Precise Shot, Two Weapon Fighting, Improved Two Weapon Fighting, and Greater Two Weapon Fighting among other feats.
As a Ranger, he gets Rapid Shot and has a damage bonus to a Favored Enemy at +4 and another at +2.
As a Frenzied Berserker, he gets an extra attack per round and Supreme Cleave, so he can not only keep attacking as long as he kills, but he can take a 5' step each time a foe drops.
With his Intelligence, this means he is doing 1d4+19 or 1d4+17 to Favored Enemies and 1d4+15 to all others.

Since this is an attack, he can take a full attack at
BAB: +28/+23/+18/+13 normally or +26/+26/+21/+16/+11 w/rapid shot
+26/+26/+21/+21/+16/+16/+11 with two weapon fighting
+24/+24/+24/+21/+21/+14/+14/+9 w/2 weap fighting & rapid shot
+24/+24/+24/+24/+21/+21/+14/+14/+9 w/2 weap & rap shot & frenzy

Precise Shot feats prevents accidents and negates all but total cover/concealment
Far Shot increases the range increment from 10' to 15' and the max from 20' to 30'.
Shot on the Run lets him move both before and after the attack, so he can move into range, fire, and then fall back to safety.

That's a potential 9 attacks doing a total of 9d4+135 (at the least) or 9d4+171 to a Favored Enemy! Get a magic item with Haste on it and you've got 10 attacks! Go Epic and pick up Perfect Two Weapon Fighting for an 11th attack, more feats that deal much more damage and the Distant Shot feat that lets you make a ranged attack on any target in sight! At that point, you basically double your damage output and can now hit any target you have line of sight with!

And that's damage that cannot be blocked, resisted, reduced, saved against or mitigated in any form or fashion. And that's just in 1 round of full attacks! Even at 20th level, not too many creatures can stand up to that kind of punishment for more than maybe 2-3 rounds.

Yes, its an extreme example but it seems that it is necessary for you to see how wrong that power is.

If you want to give arcane casters a magical attack, you need to limit it. Arcane casters have limits to their magic. Warriors don't have limits to the attacks they can do in a day, but they can't do a fraction of what a caster can do with their spells, they require a weapon (or a certain weapon), plus their attacks can be mitigated or negated.

Some good guidelines would be:
* Damage 1d6 + Int. Critical is 20/X2. Does not provoke AoO.
* Only 1 bolt per round, as a standard action--NOT as an attack.
* Since it is basically an Evocation effect, an energy type must be selected (fire, lightning, cold, acid). If Force (ala Magic Missile) or Sonic are selected as energy types, reduce the damage to 1d4 + Int.
* Energy Resistance works against the energy types. Brooches of Shielding and Shield spells work against Force damage.
* Ranged touch attack roll to hit the target. Since an attack roll is required, there is no saving throw.
* Maximum range of 30', no range increments.
* It is a magical effect, not a spell, so Spell Resistance would not negate the bolt completely. However, if the target has SR, they would get a Will save (DC = 10 + 1/2 caster level + Int mod) to take 1/2 damage.
* Caster can shoot an Eldritch Bolt a number of times per day equal to 3 + Int modifier + 1/2 caster level.
* Not considered an unarmed attack, so Fighter feats would not apply to this attack.
* Can be used while grappling. If target is pinned, make a melee touch attack. If not pinned, make a regular melee attack.

 

[Sylrae]

Your Idea does make it into a reasonable x/day power. but the whole point is im trying to make them have something that they DONT run out of. I see how its bad if you've got a setup like the above.
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Maybe make the limit that you can't use the attack more times in a round than your levels in wizard (which still allows a little bit of leeway for multiclassing) and then somehow fix the DR negation. The goal isnt yet another x daily power, the goal is an attack.

The point of the thing is that wizards are on a very limited usability per day at lower to mid levels. They need something so that they have something to do for some of the rounds where they would sit there and do nothing.

I'm not trying to come up with a power that negates all DR and SR and Resistance. As stated above, it was one supposed to overcome a couple of the weakest varieties of DR, but 35e DR is kinda dumb so thats apparently no longer an option in this edition.

The goal is an attack, that can be used as an attack, without provoking an AoO, and with the limits being imposed mainly via BAB (Maybe a static cap of level/4 attacs per round) (though you could use it in conjunction with other regular attacks).

How that goal is achieved im not too picky about.