D&D (2024) Revisiting Feats post-PT7

[Kobold Stew]

It has been just under a year before we saw the 4th level feats in the Expert Classes playtest (PT2), with first-level feats in Character Origins (PT1). Since that time, we’ve had the OGL scandal, a D&D movie, a promise to monetize the game until Hasbro owns our tears, as well as two versions of (almost) every class.

Given how much has changed in the classes, I want to go back and take a look at the feats, and maybe see a bit more now that we have a sense of the overall PHB revisions.

Level 1 Feats (PT1):

• Ten options (9 in PT1 and Lightly Armored in PT2) is not nearly enough.
• There are five feats without any ASI in Tasha's Poisoner, Metamagic Adept, Eldritch Adept, Fighting Initiate, and Artificer Initiate. With the exception of the last, all could be dropped into the PHB without difficulty. Some won't want Metamagic and Fighting Initiate here; if they were moved to 4th-level (and given a +1 ASI?) that'd be fine with me (regrdless, there's going to have to be a statement somewhere about backwards compatibility).
• This is the sub-list that Warlocks can draw on through their Lessons of the First Ones invocation (PT7). So while it’s repeatable, I’m not sure how much choice there really is, since characters will be starting with one or 2 at level 1 in any case. I guess you could forego a pact and start with three feats as a Human Warlock 1?
• Savage attacker, Skilled, and Tough are all straightforward bonuses for your career. Nothing exciting, but clear and easy. Alert, Healer, and Magic Initiate are all solid ways of individuating a character. I suspect I’ve used Magic Initiate most as a first-feat choice in the current game, and it’s exactly the same; still desirable but not, IMO, overpowered.
• Lightly Armored gives light and medium armor proficiency, and shields. This is substantial (two 2014 feats combined), and allows a starting character to replicate the abilities of the mountain dwarf, through the initial feat. Will be popular, and, for my money, in the top two for initial choices, along with Magic Initiate.
• Lucky is still way too strong.
• Tavern Brawler is fun, and adds to the effectiveness of the Brawler subclass, but could work with other classes too. I still don’t know what Fighting Style the Brawler is supposed to choose; Defense would be disappointing. It would be nice if the wording for Duelling or Two-Weapon fighting were changed to were changed to work with this.
• Crafter and Musician still seem mis-framed. Musician provides a variant song of rest and proficiency in three instruments (but not Performance, or allow Expertise or advantage on Performance checks). Crafter gives tool proficiencies and a 20% discount on all nonmagical items. Does that include gems for spell components? Such a weird incentive in any case. Both need a serious re-think – nothing we’ve learned makes them feel any better.

Fighting style feats:

• Six to choose from (PT6), all carried over from previous books. Trusted and safe.
• No blind sight, thrown weapon, interception, superior technique, unarmed fighting (all from Tasha’s).

Epic Feats

• 17 total: 8 to choose from in PT2 (Expert), plus 3 from PT4 (Druid and Paladin) and 6 in PT5 (revised from PT2), at level 20. 2: combat prowess, fortitude, luck, peerless aim, recovery, skill proficiency, undetectability, unfettered. 4: fate, spell recall, truesight. PT5: dimensional travel, energy resistance, irresistible offense, recovery, speed, night spirit.
• Now no longer part of class progression, and “after level 20” (PT7).

ASI

• Now a feat, latest version in PT7.

4th level Feats

• 29 options, all named after or replacing 2014 PHB options (Mobile becomes Speedster, e.g.). All of them “half-feats”; including a +1 ASI. Three PHB feats not carrying over: Dungeon Delver, Linguist, Martial Adept. All are changed, and most are improved (irrespective of the +1 ASI).
• Some of these were discussed in This thread.
• There are ten feats with an ASI in Tasha's. All of them could be 4th level feats.
• Each has a line asking if it’s repeatable, only Elemental Adept is. Why us not Resilient not repeatable?
• Significant changes to combat feats:
  • Crossbow Expert now only used for crossbows – no longer the way to cast attack cantrips in melee range.
  • GWM loses -5/+10, and gets +Prof 1/turn.
  • Sharpshooter loses -5/+10, gets no disadvantage at long range, and lets ranged weapons be used in melee.
  • Spell Sniper loses the free cantrip, and lets spells be used in melee.
  • Dual Wielder no longer gives +1AC. PAM no longer works with q’staff.
  • Mage Slayer – no reaction melee attack vs spells or advantage of melee-range spells; instead you get to pass any Int/Wis/Cha save. That’s super powerful, and makes this a good pick for almost anyone.
• Mounted Combat – it’s now a reaction to deflect an attack from your mount (and so only 1/round)
• Keen Mind and Observant now framed exclusively in terms of gaining one skill proficiency (or expertise), and being able to take an action (Study or Search) as a bonus action. The fluffy bits of both are gone.
• Ritual Caster, still my biggest disappointment (see next post).

 

[Kobold Stew]

Ritual Caster.

Ritual caster offers:

• +1 ASI
• Choose any two 1st-level ritual spells, which you now have prepared and can cast with slots.
• Quick ritual: 1/long rest, you can cast a ritual without spending a slot, but without the +10 minutes. This is functionally giving a level-1 slot to casters for the use of rituals.

So, right away, if you’re not a caster, you can’t RP that you found/stole a spellbook and are hacking your way through it, or a bookish kind of hedge maze. If you are not a caster, you get to cast 1 of 2 known rituals per long rest, and that’s it. However you’ve learned them, there’s no longer the apparatus.

Problem 1: lack of range. If you are a caster, you get access to another class’s list (it’s framed in terms of arcane/divine/primal, but that can change trivially). So we can look for opportunities to “hack” another class’s list. Except… almost all are on the Wizard’s list, and so that is the natural choice for all characters (unless you are a wizard and you want access to Purify Food and Drink, Detect Poison and Disease, or the execrable Ceremony).

Problem 2: level 1 only. You also can’t get access to any rituals above level 1. This is therefore very similar (now) to the Pact of the Tome invocation (where there is a book). Pact of the Tome should also be compared to the level 1 feat Magic Initiate, which gives 2 cantrips and a spell form a single list, again with a single casting. All three of these features are now very similar.

Problem 3: rituals create teamwork. Rituals, almost by their nature, are not individual focused. With the exception of Find Familiar, they are party-focused not player-focused. We should want rituals in play because they encourage teamwork and support. Diluting access to rituals dissipates collective problem solving.

Problem 4: limited worthwhile choice. So let’s look at the spells, ranked roughly in order of usability:

• Find Familiar is a natural choice for many. You don’t need to cast it every day, and so the choice between this and Magic Initiate is two cantrips any time vs. 1 ritual most days.
• Detect Magic is something every party needs, and so here you go.
• There’s a couple of spells you are unlikely to need more than once per day: Alarm, Comprehend Languages, Identify (note Identify is now the spell to read another wizard’s spellbook).
• I’ve always liked Unseen Servant and Floating Disk, but when you need then you often want them more than 1/day – they’re ideal as rituals, but not for the feat ritual caster, and so get downgraded I the context of this feat. Speak with Animals probably falls in this category.
• I can’t imagine taking any of the others in the context of this feat. Speak up and make a case for Illusory Script if you disagree.

Problem 5: no scaling. We’ve also lost the ability to get more rituals. We’ve lost the book-building game, but also the ability to access higher-level rituals.

• At level 2 there’s Augury and Silence, with Beast Sense and Gentle Repose as useful if available to cast without burning a 1/day option.
• At level 3 there’s Water Walk, Water Breathe, Phantom Steed, and Tiny Hut. All of these are solid, and reasonable things for a ritual caster to want.
• At level 4 there’s Divination, and at 5 the Commune spells.

These are great spells, and a Ritual Caster should have access to some of them. Even if the feat taker could take an extra ritual at levels 6 (level 3 or below) and 10 (level 5 or below), there’d be some diversity. But it shouldn’t require a feat chain, and ritual casting should be available generally.

Problem 6: quick ritual makes the spells useful in combat, which (for the most part) they aren’t.

Even if you don't find all of these problematic as I do, I don't see a way for this feat to integrate smoothly or be a desirable player choice.

 

[Scribe]

Thanks for this summary!

 

[Charlaquin]

Crossbow Expert now only used for crossbows – no longer the way to cast attack cantrips in melee range.

Also no longer allows you to machine-gun a single hand crossbow. Instead, it lets you add your Dex mod to damage on the off-hand attack for two-weapon fighting if you make it with a hand crossbow. Which because of the way two weapon fighting interacts with the ammunition property, you can only do every other turn. You have to keep drawing and sheathing your other light weapon to have a free hand to load the hand crossbow with when you attack with it, which is possible, but means you have to alternate which weapon you’re taking the attack action with and which one you’re attacking with as a bonus action.

PAM no longer works with q’staff.

Or a spear!

 

[Kobold Stew]

Also no longer allows you to machine-gun a single hand crossbow. Instead, it lets you add your Dex mod to damage on the off-hand attack for two-weapon fighting if you make it with a hand crossbow.

Yes -- you need two handcrossbows.

Which because of the way two weapon fighting interacts with the ammunition property, you can only do every other turn. You have to keep drawing and sheathing your other light weapon to have a free hand to load the hand crossbow with when you attack with it, which is possible, but means you have to alternate which weapon you’re taking the attack action with and which one you’re attacking with as a bonus action.

Is this true? Doesn't crossbow expert mean you ignore the loading property? I think I must be missing something. I read it as solving exactly this sort of shenanigans.

 

[Amrûnril]

My biggest issue is still the overuse of the level 4 prerequisite. I don't mind if there are specific feats that actually need to be limited to levels 4+ for balance reasons, but the playtests seemed to treat it as the default, even for feats that would have made a lot of sense as part of a background and didn't present any balance issues for 2014 variant humans. Keeping most feats in a single category and making the +1 ASI part of the feature granting feats at level 4+ (rather than the feats themselves) would allow a lot more characterization options with little or no downside.

Ritual Caster.

Ritual caster offers:

• +1 ASI
• Choose any two 1st-level ritual spells, which you now have prepared and can cast with slots.
• Quick ritual: 1/long rest, you can cast a ritual without spending a slot, but without the +10 minutes. This is functionally giving a level-1 slot to casters for the use of rituals.

So, right away, if you’re not a caster, you can’t RP that you found/stole a spellbook and are hacking your way through it, or a bookish kind of hedge maze. If you are not a caster, you get to cast 1 of 2 known rituals per long rest, and that’s it. However you’ve learned them, there’s no longer the apparatus.

Problem 1: lack of range. If you are a caster, you get access to another class’s list (it’s framed in terms of arcane/divine/primal, but that can change trivially). So we can look for opportunities to “hack” another class’s list. Except… almost all are on the Wizard’s list, and so that is the natural choice for all characters (unless you are a wizard and you want access to Purify Food and Drink, Detect Poison and Disease, or the execrable Ceremony).

Problem 2: level 1 only. You also can’t get access to any rituals above level 1. This is therefore very similar (now) to the Pact of the Tome invocation (where there is a book). Pact of the Tome should also be compared to the level 1 feat Magic Initiate, which gives 2 cantrips and a spell form a single list, again with a single casting. All three of these features are now very similar.

Problem 3: rituals create teamwork. Rituals, almost by their nature, are not individual focused. With the exception of Find Familiar, they are party-focused not player-focused. We should want rituals in play because they encourage teamwork and support. Diluting access to rituals dissipates collective problem solving.

Problem 4: limited worthwhile choice. So let’s look at the spells, ranked roughly in order of usability:

• Find Familiar is a natural choice for many. You don’t need to cast it every day, and so the choice between this and Magic Initiate is two cantrips any time vs. 1 ritual most days.
• Detect Magic is something every party needs, and so here you go.
• There’s a couple of spells you are unlikely to need more than once per day: Alarm, Comprehend Languages, Identify (note Identify is now the spell to read another wizard’s spellbook).
• I’ve always liked Unseen Servant and Floating Disk, but when you need then you often want them more than 1/day – they’re ideal as rituals, but not for the feat ritual caster, and so get downgraded I the context of this feat. Speak with Animals probably falls in this category.
• I can’t imagine taking any of the others in the context of this feat. Speak up and make a case for Illusory Script if you disagree.

Problem 5: no scaling. We’ve also lost the ability to get more rituals. We’ve lost the book-building game, but also the ability to access higher-level rituals.

• At level 2 there’s Augury and Silence, with Beast Sense and Gentle Repose as useful if available to cast without burning a 1/day option.
• At level 3 there’s Water Walk, Water Breathe, Phantom Steed, and Tiny Hut. All of these are solid, and reasonable things for a ritual caster to want.
• At level 4 there’s Divination, and at 5 the Commune spells.

These are great spells, and a Ritual Caster should have access to some of them. Even if the feat taker could take an extra ritual at levels 6 (level 3 or below) and 10 (level 5 or below), there’d be some diversity. But it shouldn’t require a feat chain, and ritual casting should be available generally.

Problem 6: quick ritual makes the spells useful in combat, which (for the most part) they aren’t.

Even if you don't find all of these problematic as I do, I don't see a way for this feat to integrate smoothly or be a desirable player choice.

I also think the Quick Ritual feature is problematic thematically. The sort of character I'd want to model with Ritual Caster is one who needs time and reference materials to cast spell. Magic Initiate already exists for those who want access to magic on the same time scale as spellcasting classes.

 

[Kinematics]

PAM no longer works with q’staff.

Speaking of PAM, you can no longer combine it with Sentinel to prevent an enemy from ever reaching melee range with you.

Sentinel reduces a creature's speed to 0 if you hit it with an Opportunity Attack. PAM was rewritten to allow you to use your weapon to make a melee attack when a creature enters your reach — not an Opportunity Attack.

 

[Horwath]

Speaking of PAM, you can no longer combine it with Sentinel to prevent an enemy from ever reaching melee range with you.

Sentinel reduces a creature's speed to 0 if you hit it with an Opportunity Attack. PAM was rewritten to allow you to use your weapon to make a melee attack when a creature enters your reach — not an Opportunity Attack.

since the both now come with +1 ASI, it's OK

 

[Horwath]

My biggest issue is still the overuse of the level 4 prerequisite. I don't mind if there are specific feats that actually need to be limited to levels 4+ for balance reasons, but the playtests seemed to treat it as the default, even for feats that would have made a lot of sense as part of a background and didn't present any balance issues for 2014 variant humans. Keeping most feats in a single category and making the +1 ASI part of the feature granting feats at level 4+ (rather than the feats themselves) would allow a lot more characterization options with little or no downside.


I also think the Quick Ritual feature is problematic thematically. The sort of character I'd want to model with Ritual Caster is one who needs time and reference materials to cast spell. Magic Initiate already exists for those who want access to magic on the same time scale as spellcasting classes.

yeaj, Fey touched, Shadow touched, Kinetic, all sound like a good background feature,
Even Heavy armor mastery for a soldier, Skill expert for a rogue,

balance all feats that the come with +1 ASI and then take any feat at 1st level without the +1 ASI, maybe even two feats to jumpstart character concept.

 

[Charlaquin]

Yes -- you need two handcrossbows.

That doesn’t work cause you need a free hand to load a hand crossbow. One of the weapons you dual-wield with a hand crossbow needs to be a melee or thrown weapon for it to work.

Is this true? Doesn't crossbow expert mean you ignore the loading property? I think I must be missing something. I read it as solving exactly this sort of shenanigans.

The loading property isn’t the problem, the ammunition property is. The ammunition property says “You can use a weapon that has the ammunition property to make a ranged attack only if you have ammunition to fire from the weapon. Each time you attack with the weapon, you expend one piece of ammunition. Drawing the ammunition from a quiver, case, or other container is part of the attack (you need a free hand to load a one-handed weapon).”

So, to use a hand crossbow with two-weapon fighting, you need to start with the hand crossbow equipped in one hand and your other hand free. For your action, attack with the hand crossbow and draw your other light weapon as part of the attack action. Then use your bonus action to attack with the other weapon (or no action if you have the nick mastery with it). Next turn, you’re starting your turn with both hands full, so you can’t attack with the hand crossbow (yet) because of the ammunition property. So you use your action to attack with your other light weapon and sheathe it as part of the attack action. Now you have a hand free to attack with the hand crossbow as a bonus action. Repeat.

Unfortunately, this means you’re alternating which weapon you’re using with the attack action and which one you’re using with the bonus action attack from the light property. And since the wording on the playtest version of the Crossbow Expert feat says “when you make the extra attack of the light weapon property, you can add your ability modifier to the damage of the extra attack if that attack is with a crossbow that has the light property” which means that benefit can only be applied every other turn at most. I doubt this is intentional, and the easy fix would be to change it to say “if one of the light weapons is a crossbow.”

Alternatively, you could have the Crossbow Expert feat allow you to load a crossbow you have equipped even when you have a weapon equipped in the other hand, a la Warcaster. Then you could actually just dual-wield hand crossbows instead of having to solve this weird draw-sheathe puzzle to dual wield one hand Crossbow and one shortsword or dagger (or one rapier if you also have the dual-wielder feat).