Ride Skill in D&D 4

[Klaus]

Instead of deciding on one skill that would be used for all riding checks I'd ask the player to describe what they're doing and intending to do on horseback each time and make a case by case decision on which skill to use.

If the character is trying to twist in his saddle to avoid falling out, I'd have them roll Acrobatics. If they're trying to settle down their terrified mount, I'd have them roll Nature. If they're trying to ride many miles as fast as possible, Pony Express style, I might have them roll Endurance or Nature, or maybe both.

This is how I'd handle it.

Instead of making opposed rolls on a "Ride" check, with victory going to the highest roll, you decide on a series of "tests" and have each rider roll the appropriate skill at the moment. Whoever succeeds the most wins the tournament. Almost like some sort of "challenge of skills".

Ideas:

Jousting: Endurance check to hold the lance steady and hit opponent. Athletics check to stay in the saddle.
Obstacle course: Athletics to clear obstacles, Acrobatics to clear slalom courses.
Animal control presentation: Nature or Insight to guide the horse.
Cross-country: Athletics to run faster, Endurance not to tire, Acrobatics to outmaneuver other competitors.

 

[TheClone]

The idea of choosing the skill case-by-case seems best to me. Though I'd stick to using Athletics for the charge and Athletics or Acrobatics to stay in the saddle. The idea of rolling a save to stay in the saddle from WotC it pretty much 4e, but sounds a little awkward to me.

Nobody rides so badly that they bump themselves out of the saddle and fall off without outside interference (like a giant doing a forced move + prone power).

You would be surprised. I found it difficult in the beginning to stay in the saddle while trotting, not talking about galloping or even jumping even now after I've had some lessons. So many people will ride so baldy that they will fall out the saddle. When the horse panics or something this will even happen to experienced riders frequently. Though I surely won't make players roll during normal situations. But jousting and other contest will need skill roles.

Also the idea of using the horse's skills seemed a little "overdone" to me. Surely if you jump an obstacle you should use the mounts athletics skill. But spurring the mount to jump will need the rider's skills, as will any other form of "special" action for the mount. If someone has the mounted combat though, he can do more things without any roll. But I'd not apply that to tournaments. He will get a bonus, but he has to do a check.

The connection from Nature to riding is a little weak, but I can see where it comes from. But surviving in Nature in riding it totally unrelated to me. Nature knowledge and knowing how to treat a horse is a valid connection to me. And I see calming a horse (form saddle or ground) and similar things which are not as much movement related a good uses of the nature skill while dealing with horses. But I guess I'd use Nature for preparing the mount on tournament day only if I run out of skills. Saddling and things won't make much of difference. What will make a difference is training the mount, feeding it properly and such thing, but that is done days and weeks beforehand.

 

[ourchair]

Instead of deciding on one skill that would be used for all riding checks I'd ask the player to describe what they're doing and intending to do on horseback each time and make a case by case decision on which skill to use.

If the character is trying to twist in his saddle to avoid falling out, I'd have them roll Acrobatics. If they're trying to settle down their terrified mount, I'd have them roll Nature. If they're trying to ride many miles as fast as possible, Pony Express style, I might have them roll Endurance or Nature, or maybe both.

Like Klaus said, this is how I'd handle it.

I know people are kind of split on the 'assumption' that ALL 4E characters are competent on a horse, but I think this approach sort of affirms the validity of that assumption.

Simply put, you don't create an extension of mechanics to accomodate riding feats (as in 'displays of prowess' not as in 'mechanical extensions that become available every two levels').

Instead this approach takes the competencies already built into a particular character and apply them to their horses, wagons or what have you. Acrobatic and Athletic individuals can do better tricks, while a person with a naturally high Intimidate score knows how to burst into the town looking like a bad-ass. A person with great Endurance simply fares better on a ride over rough terrain without getting 'horseback thighs'

Considering that earlier versions of d20 assume that highly dextrous scoundrels are great with piloting a starship, it's not much of a stretch to say that whatever you're already good at, should be used in the context of what you're going to attempt with a horse.

 

[delericho]

You would be surprised. I found it difficult in the beginning to stay in the saddle while trotting, not talking about galloping or even jumping even now after I've had some lessons. So many people will ride so baldy that they will fall out the saddle.

I think he was talking in the context of the game, where the PCs are assumed to be reasonably competent in common skills, and where riding is considered a common skill.

Also the idea of using the horse's skills seemed a little "overdone" to me. Surely if you jump an obstacle you should use the mounts athletics skill. But spurring the mount to jump will need the rider's skills,

In this instance, the rider should use Intimidate or Athletics to make an Aid Another check.

as will any other form of "special" action for the mount.

In reality, a horse would need to be specially trained to perform these special tricks. In a fantasy world...

I would suggest that the major issue here is communication, so the PC should use some sort of animal-control power to do the trick, or fall back to a Nature check.

If someone has the mounted combat though, he can do more things without any roll. But I'd not apply that to tournaments. He will get a bonus, but he has to do a check.

IMO, a tournament is best modelled as a mini-Skill Challenge - Nature or Intimidate to control the mount, then a flat attack roll to hit (followed by a save to stay in the saddle if hit in turn). After each round, require an Endurance check (at an escalating DC) to avoid fatigue - with each level of fatigue applying a cumulative -2 penalty to all future rolls.

The connection from Nature to riding is a little weak, but I can see where it comes from.

Bear in mind that skills in 4e are necessarily broad. In the absence of a specific Ride or Handle Animal skill, Nature is the closest we have.

 

[keterys]

I think he was talking in the context of the game, where the PCs are assumed to be reasonably competent in common skills, and where riding is considered a common skill.

Indeed - people don't fall off their mounts in fantasy movies, nor D&D games, unless it's thematically timed or there's a _good_ reason.

We don't generally need checks to tell your mount what to do - you want it to move to a certain square, it does. You want it to try and jump something, there's no check to ask it to do so: it does. The chevalier theme and the mounted combat feats allow you to use your own Acrobatics and Athletics in place of the mount's, and vice versa, so that makes it pretty clear how you _normally_ resolve such actions - you ask it to jump, it makes its own Athletics check to do so. You can make an argument for an assist - "You can do it, you can do it!"

 

[RHGreen]

Indeed - people don't fall off their mounts in fantasy movies, nor D&D games, unless it's thematically timed or there's a _good_ reason.

You can make an argument for an assist - "You can do it, you can do it!"

I agree.

Actually, if there is a need for some sort of skill, it should be in the form of a feat where you can give your horse a +2 bonus (like an auto assist) to its own skills checks or something of that nature.

It doesn't warrant wasting on a full blown skill. Having a riding skill in D&D is like having a bicycle, swimming or running skill.

 

[Ryujin]

As I've said in many other threads, I prefer to keep things simple. When dealing with a mount you use the rider's skill, or the mount's, whichever is greater. Most rolls will be based on Athletics (jumping, cutting, etc.). Jousting for rings or plain ol' jousting could be resolved using the combat system, which makes sense if the character has taken feats specifically for mounted combat, or with Athletics, modified by the combat bonuses for the feats the character has taken.

Then you get into trick riding; leaning down to pick up a handkerchief while at full gallop, left side to right side dismounts and remounts at a full gallop, standing in the saddle...... These would most likely be resolved using Acrobatics, rather than Athletics. You wouldn't typically have the same guy who excels at tilting also doing so at trick riding. Different skill set.

 

[ourchair]

Indeed - people don't fall off their mounts in fantasy movies, nor D&D games, unless it's thematically timed or there's a _good_ reason.

Indeed.

In fact, a character who DOES fall off his mount would be the noteworthy exception IN the fantasy movie, played up as comically incompetent next to his more horse-abled peers.

 

[S'mon]

Mostly Athletics for stuff like not falling off; Acrobatics for weird feats like standing on a galloping horse while shooting your bow. Nature would be for 3e 'animal handling' stuff like calming a panicked horse. Insight might also be relevant.