RIP Take 20... Hello, Take 18!

[Starfox]

You may want to consider replacing the roll for Aid Another with the pre-errata Easy skill DC from page 42. This makes it a roll of a 10 at low level, but it scales up from there.

When the party is 20th level and has a +10 for level alone, it seems like making them roll a 10 to assist is pretty pointless. If you want the roll to represent any effort at all, it needs to be a sliding scale.

Carl

My idea here is to add +5 at Paragon and +10 at Epic levels, thus making the DC to assist 10 (Heroic), 15 (Paragon) and 20 (Epic).

Also, if several characters at attempting a task together, I allow the players to pick the main character for the task after they roll. This gives a real, tangible benefit for a party to have several characters with the same skill. It also shifts the role-playing initiative around, especially on social skills.

 

[mcnathan80]

IIRC you can't take 10 on an aid another check

 

[Stalker0]

One thing I'm curious about is can I take 20 on strength checks? I mean, can I retry until I break through the wall (which you don't have to be a terribly high level if you are a strength based character) or is it once you fail on the check, the wall is assumed to be too hard for you to break.

 

[deleteme123456]

My idea here is to add +5 at Paragon and +10 at Epic levels, thus making the DC to assist 10 (Heroic), 15 (Paragon) and 20 (Epic).

Also, if several characters at attempting a task together, I allow the players to pick the main character for the task after they roll. This gives a real, tangible benefit for a party to have several characters with the same skill. It also shifts the role-playing initiative around, especially on social skills.

10/15/20 is auto-succeed (Take 10) at mental and social skills except at Level 1 and level 11 and then only if you have your 8 in that attribute (assuming point buy).

I think for now I'll do "must roll once (no take 10, no retry) against Easy DC (=errata'ed DC + 5) for that level". Yes that's still 10 at this level but no take 10 on the check at least introduces failure, and it scales.

 

[deleteme123456]

One thing I'm curious about is can I take 20 on strength checks? I mean, can I retry until I break through the wall (which you don't have to be a terribly high level if you are a strength based character) or is it once you fail on the check, the wall is assumed to be too hard for you to break.

Well of course, there's technically no Take 20... but RAW, everyone could take 10 on their Aid Another check (unless they're level 1 and have 8 str) and you can get to +18 or something if you take 10 (see OP). So +18 + 1/2 level + strmod ... that's easily 23 by level 2.

Some of the new supplements have been using Athletics checks as a representation of brute force, which is a little odd... but at least it's Strength based. (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/excerpts/SToS_R9.pdf)

 

[Hypersmurf]

IIRC you can't take 10 on an aid another check

That was true in 3E/3.5... I haven't found a corresponding rule in 4E.

-Hyp.

 

[mattdm]

That was true in 3E/3.5... I haven't found a corresponding rule in 4E.

There's no "you can't do it" rule, but the situations in which you can take 10 are still pretty strict: not under pressure (i.e., outside of an encounter) and the task must be "mundane".

 

[The Little Raven]

There's no "you can't do it" rule, but the situations in which you can take 10 are still pretty strict: not under pressure (i.e., outside of an encounter) and the task must be "mundane".

Yeah, I'd consider a skill challenge to be under pressure... otherwise, it's not really much of a challenge.

 

[deleteme123456]

Yeah, I'd consider a skill challenge to be under pressure... otherwise, it's not really much of a challenge.

All of this is outside skill challenges from my POV--I use Obsidian for those anyway.