Rogue survival in the land of the unliving. Looking for advice...

[Kalendraf]

I'm playing a rogue in a campaign setting that is dominated by the unliving. In other words, nearly all the foes are undead...and thus unsneakable and uncritable. I'm looking for any helpful advice on how to make my rogue better able to handle this situation.

The character I'm running is a former 8th level NPC-turned-PC (basically, the party needed a rogue and I later joined the campaign to run said rogue). Stats for this char:

Gnome Rogue 8 STR: 11 DEX: 18 CON: 16 INT: 15 WIS: 11 CHA: 9
Feats: Combat Expertise*, Weapon Finesse, Exotic Weapon Prof (Spiked Chain)
Raw Skill Ranks: Bluff 5, Decipher Script 1, Disable Device 11, Hide 11, Listen 11, Move Silently 11, Open Lock 11, Search 11, Sleight of Hand 1, Spot 11, Tumble 11, Use Magic Device 11, Craft(Locksmithing) 1, Knowledge(Local) 1, Knowledge(Planes) 1.0

* - Party lacks many melee types, meaning that he often finds himself on the front line.

Thus far, he has seemed to be largely ineffective in most battles. Small size weapons + no str bonus + lack of sneak/crit = pathetic damage. Toss in up to a +5 AC/-5 to hit from Combat Expertise, and he may not even be hitting at all. Also, he has proven vulnerable to mind-affecting magics - I think he has failed all but one will save so far. The character has just gained a level, and I'm trying to find some useful options to help against all these nasty undead.


Question #1: Which class to bump?

Multiclass to cleric: Several problems - low Wisdom, low level turning won't be of much help at this point, charisma penalty on turning, future EXP penalties due to level mismatch. Verdict = very bad idea

Multiclass to bard: No exp penalty. Bard songs could help party...I guess. Spells would be weak, and undead tend to be immune to bards' mind-affecting types of magic. Verdict = still mad at WotC for making bard the gnome's favored class.

Multiclass to something else: Not sure what other classes help the most against undead. Party already has a couple of blaster types (sorcerer and a psion) so I'm not sure it would be wise to explore something like Wizard. Ranger is slightly tempting, be we already have a ranger in the party. Anything non-bard will mean that future exp penalties would still occur. Verdict = probably a bad idea

Try a prestige class: Haven't spotted any viable ones so far. Some prestige classes that could be helpful have entry requirements he can't meet. The few prestige classes he could qualify for now or rather soon seem to be rather useless to help vs. undead.

Stick with Rogue: This seems to be the most viable choice at this point. Gee, upon moving to 9th level, he'll get...another +1d6 sneak.


Question #2: Which feat to take?

Improved Initiative: Against most foes, this is helpful. But in this case, trying to go first in combat to catch foes (undead) flat-footed for purposes of delivering sneak attacks is pointless. In addition, moving first often seems to draw enemy attention or ends up placing the character out front in harm's way. Going later in the round actually seems better.

Iron Will: With a low wisdom and the rogue's poor will saves, he has already failed several will saves. Not sure how much an extra +2 would help, but it's definitely better than nothing.

Great Fortitude: Although we have not faced many fortitude saves yet, undead feature some really nasty abilities that make fort saves important. His high con will help there somewhat, but it could be a problem eventually. An extra +2 on fort saves might be worthwhile.

Combat Reflexes: With a reach weapon and high dex, he could potentially get a lot of extra attacks with this feat. Unfortunately, the other party members don't seem to have any methods to induce extra AoO's (trips, disarms, etc) which could make this feat really shine. Haven't had many cases where even 1 AoO has been triggered, and none thus far where 2 or more would have happened, so this does not seem like a good investment at this point.

Weapon Focus (Spiked Chain): Helpful at hitting and potentially off-setting the to hit penalty of Combat Expertise slightly, but that's about it.

Improved Trip: Spiked chain can work well with this, but being small-size makes it much less likely to succeed.

Dodge: An extra AC vs 1 target, and the pre-req for mobility. Dodge/Mobility are also pre-reqs for several prestige classes. Thus, while Dodge may not be all that useful right now, it may lead to some later benefits.

Some other feat for a prestige pre-req: Not ruling this out, but I'm just not sure which prestige would be useful at this point.


We have access to the complete books, but I didn't spot anything useful in those.

At this point I'm somewhat stumped as to finding a good option. I'm certainly open to other suggestions that I haven't thought of. Otherwise, I'll probably just go with another level in rogue, take Iron Will, and hope for the best.

 

[darthkilmor]

Check out Spark of Life from SC(Cleric 3 /Druid 4.), it makes undead subject to critical hits & sneak attack, and a variety of other things.

 

[Pinotage]

If it is combat heavy, then I suggest a level or two of wizard just to get Grave Strike. It's a swift action spell that allows you to sneak attack undead for 1 round. Get into a flanking position and use it. Or, with Improved Initiative, you get to go while they're flat-footed and hit them from range. I'd suggest looking at getting a good bow, such as flaming or something.

Pinotage

 

[Kalendraf]

Check out Spark of Life from SC(Cleric 3 /Druid 4.)

What is SC? If it's not in a core book or in a complete book, I probably can't use it. Also, what is the range? If it's personal only, then it won't be of any use.

If it is combat heavy, then I suggest a level or two of wizard just to get Grave Strike. It's a swift action spell that allows you to sneak attack undead for 1 round.

FYI - Grave Strike is only castable by clerics or paladins. I had seen this spell in complete adventurer and considered it, but the whole multiclassing to cleric seems overly problematic.

I'd suggest looking at getting a good bow, such as flaming or something.

Unfortunately, this campaign setting has no wood, so certain weapons like bows and crossbows aren't available. I guess I could look into a flaming sling. Behold the mighty single shot per round 1d3 small-sized sling bullets!

 

[Wolfwood2]

At this point I'm somewhat stumped as to finding a good option. I'm certainly open to other suggestions that I haven't thought of. Otherwise, I'll probably just go with another level in rogue, take Iron Will, and hope for the best.

Ask your DM to implement a house rule whereby undead can be affected by Sneak Attack at 2d6 less damage than a living foe would receive.

Justification: You agreed to take on a suboptimal character for the campaign because the group neeed it, and it's unfair to make you useless in combat. Damage is all abstract anyway.

Don't screw around with feats or spells trying to find an 'official' fix. The problem is that the speficic details of the campaign and the character and making combat, one of the central parts of D&D, unfun for you. That needs to be fixed.

 

[Haffrung Helleyes]

Your UMD skill is quite good...why don't you purchase a wand of grave strike?

Ken

 

[Kalendraf]

Don't screw around with feats or spells trying to find an 'official' fix. The problem is that the speficic details of the campaign and the character and making combat, one of the central parts of D&D, unfun for you. That needs to be fixed.

You may have misunderstood - I am not finding this situation to be unfun...at least not yet. Overcoming great adversity is much more rewarding, IMHO, than trying to stump for a quick fix via some kind of houseruling.

Undead are part of the game, and campaigns that feature them predominately are well-within the realms of possibility. Rogues should have some methods to deal with them. It's just not clear to me which the best options are for doing that inside the framework of the core book/complete book RAW.

Your UMD skill is quite good...why don't you purchase a wand of grave strike?

Now that's more like it. I'll have to see if I can get one. Most of the crafters tend to be wizard-types, but I'll see if I can find a cleric crafter w/ some wands for sale somewhere in this vile place.

[edit] Nevermind - this won't work because wand activation is a minimum of 1 standard action, and the Grave Strike duration only lasts the 1 round it is cast. Thus it can't be activated from a wand and get an attack in the same round. There's probably some other wands and equipment worth exploring however.

Also, this still doesn't address the class & feat questions.

 

[Ciaran]

Well, there's always the classics: an undead bane or disruption weapon. Not playing to your strengths, but what can you do?

If your GM is amenable to such things, perhaps your party's cleric might research some way to craft a permanent grave strike weapon that lets you sneak attack undead normally.

 

[Pinotage]

Your UMD skill is quite good...why don't you purchase a wand of grave strike?

Ken

Because activating it is a standard action, not a swift action. So it's pointless in a wand.

Pinotage

 

[Kmart Kommando]

Get a wand of Extended Gravestrike.