Rogues don't get uncanny dodge until 4 in 3.5

[Brekke]

We just switched to 3.5 tonight. I play a fighter/rogue. I am working towards the order of the bow and was until the change ready to go into the PRc next level. I have 4 levels of fighter and 3 of rogue. I planned it this way because I wanted the evasion and uncanny dodge my fighter is based all on dex.

Now with the change I no longer have uncanny dodge so I have a choice to either take another level of rogue to get it or convince my DM to house rule it on theis PC.

My character is not into traps or disable device or the usual rogue things so trap sense makes no sense What do you think of me just not getting trap sense swapping it out for uncanny dodge. At this point I have no plans to put any more levels into rogue.

How are other people handling things like this with the switch?

Carol

 

[Cabaras]

From a general viewpoint, trap sense and uncanny dodge aren't really equivalent -- uncanny dodge is much more useful.

I wouldn't think of trap sense as "you are in tune with traps" as much as it is just another aspect of hair-trigger reflexes.

That extra level of rogue isn't all that bad...you do get BAB and reflex saves out of it, along with the usual rogue skill points.

Overall, if it were my campaign, I'd probably switch fully over to the 3.5 rogue if I was switching over other classes. I think that keeps things simple, and prevents having to swap between 3.0 and 3.5 books. OTOH, my last campaign ended a few months ago...so if I were running it today, I'm not sure I'd make the same decision. It would mean a fair number of NPCs to convert over.

 

[the Jester]

Well, the whole point of the change is to discourage people from taking three levels of rogue for the sweet stuff and leaving it behind. Were I your dm, I'd make you make a choice: OotBI at your next level... or uncanny dodge.

Painful choice? Yep.

That's part of the point of 3e- and moreso, of the revision. You can't have it all; you have to give something up.

 

[Brekke]

Well, the whole point of the change is to discourage people from taking three levels of rogue for the sweet stuff and leaving it behind. Were I your dm, I'd make you make a choice: OotBI at your next level... or uncanny dodge.

Painful choice? Yep.

That's part of the point of 3e- and moreso, of the revision. You can't have it all; you have to give something up.

Here is my problem with this if we were playing 3.5 from the very start of this character then I would have planed things different. I would never have taken the third level of rogue at this time. I would have taken fighter and qualified for my PRC an entire level sooner. On the advice of my DM and more experianced players I was told take the third level of rogue now with the fact that you only wear leather armor uncanny dodge is so useful.

I was building a Legolas type archer and I wanted to be able to tumble and climb and have decent balance and my character is a member of a secret society in Kalamar I needed sense motive and bluff which was why I took any levels of rogue.

My feelings is that if 3.5 changes how you would have done something then your DM needs to work with you on the change. If not giving me uncanny dodge then allow me to go back and take the level of fighter.

I am not the only one unhappy in the group the player playing the druid had a concept based on the beastmaster she has three animal compaions now she has been told to get rid of two. This changes her whole concept and her background story. She is going to retire the character and build something different.

This is not the only character of mine being changed because of 3.5 my gnome illusionist/mechanist in Dragonstar just started taking XP penalties because of illusionist no longer being the favored class for gnomes. This is really no biggie because I would have choosen even if the penalties had been there from day1.

My point is that with the changes I think there needs to be some give and take on players and DMs part.

Carol

 

[Fenes 2]

When we switch rules we always allow to retroactively alter the PC, or compensate the PC if we deem it neccessary.

 

[Jens]

If the rules change in a way affecting your character, you should be allowed to "re-make" previous choises so they better conform with the new rules. That's only fair, anything else is to screw the character.

 

[Li Shenron]

My point is that with the changes I think there needs to be some give and take on players and DMs part.

Why is your DM so keen on switching to 3.5 in the middle of a campaign? What about the players other than you & the Druid, are they pushing for the change because it will benefit their PCs?

I think at the very least your DM should let you go on with 3.0 with your PC, including the future levels of every class you have levels in.

Honestly, I think it's not a very good idea to switch in the middle of a campaign at all if some players do not wish to. It is just like changing the rules of the game in the middle of a match, which is not fair nor sportsmanlike once you've already started, unless everyone is content with the change.

 

[Numion]

Look at it like this: you're about to take one of the more broken prestige classes, so even if you have to take one more level of rogue you are not going to end up being the weakest link in your group!

 

[the Jester]

Here is my problem with this if we were playing 3.5 from the very start of this character then I would have planed things different. I would never have taken the third level of rogue at this time. I would have taken fighter and qualified for my PRC an entire level sooner. On the advice of my DM and more experianced players I was told take the third level of rogue now with the fact that you only wear leather armor uncanny dodge is so useful...

This is not the only character of mine being changed because of 3.5 my gnome illusionist/mechanist in Dragonstar just started taking XP penalties because of illusionist no longer being the favored class for gnomes. This is really no biggie because I would have choosen even if the penalties had been there from day1.

My point is that with the changes I think there needs to be some give and take on players and DMs part.

Carol

Ah, gotcha. Well, when I convert I'm going to let the players make a certain amount of revisions to their characters- in your case, I'd certainly allow you to drop that third rogue level if you wanted (either for fighter or OotBI). I'm going to 'grandfather' the gnome illusionist/rogue imc as well so his favored class remains illusionist.

I totally agree about give and take, but instead of changing the classes' features around I'm inclined to let the pcs change their choices around a little. I think that maintains balance a lot better. (Ah, the mythical balance.)

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Well, the whole point of the change is to discourage people from taking three levels of rogue for the sweet stuff and leaving it behind.

Did anyone really have a problem with people cherry-picking classes by taking three levels in them? I mean, to me that's a substantial investment in a class. It's not the same as taking a level of Paladin or Ranger for all the bennies. Three levels is a big chunk of a character...