Rogues vs undead, elementals, golems, etc.

[mcgeedis]

What is a Rogue's best tactics against creatures immune to sneak attack? I was thinking about this the other day, and it just seems that a Rogue's best bet is to just stay away from these creature types and use ranged attacks. I can't think of any feat, skill, or one single magic item that would make a Rogue effective against these creatures. Granted, their are specific spells of classes that would allow a Rogue to use sneak attack vs undead (Gravestrike, Skullclan hunter, for example).

So, other than using ranged attacks, potions of Bull's Strength and damage buffing spells for melee, is their another tactic that Rogue's should employ were they to come across these sneak attack immune creature types?

 

[Engilbrand]

Have you checked out the Magic Item Compendium? There are a few things in there. Things that give you the ability to overcome DR/Adamantine. Things to Sneak Attack Undead. Normally, though, the Rogue would be hosed.

 

[dagger]

Also in Complete Champion you can give up Trap Sense to have the ability to sneak attack undead, but its at half ability.

 

[evilbob]

Well, since you're a rogue, you can try maxing UMD and pick up a few wands or scrolls that the mages don't need. Keeping a wand or two of spells that hurt things you can't sneak attack is always a good idea.

However, my general advice would be: start looking for things you can do to help the party that don't involve dealing damage.

Aid another is a fairly unimpressive thing you can do that can actually be pretty useful. Flank whenever you can, even if you can't sneak attack. Go into full defense, and try to waste their attacks. Try to spot useful battlefield tricks you can pull, like a door or trap that could help your party divide the enemy. Or even just go through your own backpack and get potions or items ready to hand to others.

Many folks despair (or even pout - I've seen it happen) when their character can't do lots of direct damage to foes. As it turns out, there's a ton of stuff you can do in a battle that can help the party significantly - it just isn't as flashy as a 100+ damage critical.

 

[Plane Sailing]

When one campaign I'm in was centered in transylvania, and there were more undead than you could shake a stick at, the party rogue invested in an undead bane weapon. The additional +2 to hit and +2d6+2 to damage meant that he could meaningfully contribute to fights even without sneak attack.

In addition, he effectively pulled off the big vampire kill by simply tumbling into the crypt and sprinkling holy water all over the coffins while the party 'killed' the vampire.

Bane weapons are the rogues friend against non-sneak-attackable foes though.

 

[Egres]

Try Dungeonscape.

There's a rogue alternative class feature that allows you to sneak attack (at half of your sneak attack bonus dice) all creatures that are immune to sneak attacks but are flankable.

 

[mcgeedis]

Well, since you're a rogue, you can try maxing UMD and pick up a few wands or scrolls that the mages don't need. Keeping a wand or two of spells that hurt things you can't sneak attack is always a good idea.

Aren't Golems immune to spells or they have high SR?

We do have an Artificer in the party, so the Bane weapon idea is a good one. The big problem we have is there really aren't any Brutes/Tanks in our group for the Rogue to aid in flanking and such.

 

[evilbob]

Aren't Golems immune to spells...

Yes, but undead and elementals are not.

 

[frankthedm]

Core: UMD and staves of fire go a decent distance. Couple that with a scarab of golem bane for those spell immune golems.

Non core offers a fair amount of ways to damage crit immune creatures, but at the same time there are a lot of non core that boosts those monsters in frightening ways. You can get a few ways to sneak undead, but they can start seeing your life force as if it were a daylight spell once non core material enters the mix.

 

[Deset Gled]

Your rogue is not supposed to be able to sneak attack some creatures. Get over it, and let someone else have the spotlight.

Do utility work (i.e. something other than causing direct damage). Use utility spells (walls, etc). Position yourself to protect others and make AoOs. Help the cleric tend to the wounded. Use some of those skill points. A rogue has a million options other than attacking.