Role-Playing Aesthetics

Nugan

First Post
I posted this topic on Dykal several months ago, and it lead to an interesting discussion, so I thought it might be worthwhile to post it here as well. (It might be best to ignore the first paragraph, as it makes little sense out of context, I couldn't figure out how to remove it without rewording the thread.)

Anyway, here's the thread:

After evaluating the unrestrained, scattershot rant I made a few days ago in Turonik's thread about renovating the DET, which—like most rants—contained ideas that I had long been incubating but had not really organized prior to writing, I came to the conclusion that I was really discussing two different topics. One of those topics, the questionable legitimacy of most conventional settings, really had more to do with fantasy as a genre than with role-playing in and of itself. I'm planning on making a tread on that topic eventually, but I won't discuss it here.

The other idea did relate more directly to role-playing. In essence, I was asking (and groping to answer, if poorly) a question that is often alluded to but rarely directly discussed in conversations about freeform role-playing, which is: What standard (or standards) should be used to judge quality in the realm of freeform role-playing? Or, to be needlessly techincal: What constitues the standards of role-playing aesthetics?

Most FFRPers have some internal unarticulated standard for judging quality. Unfortunately, since this topic is rarely discussed, these standards are often simplistic and not subject to reflection and adjustment (this is as true of my standards as those of anyone else).

Often, we judge role-playing quality by the same standards that a high school english teacher would judge the quality of a student essay: Is this player using proper grammar? Proper spelling? Are they clear? Do they say what they are trying to say without butchering the english language? There usually isn't anything innately wrong with this method, but it's very limited. One doesn't review novels or poems or stories or any other literary art form (and, yes, I do think that FFRPing is an art form) by such anemic standards. It provides no basis to explore nuance and complexity. Also, it may be counter-productive at times, such as when a character is speaking in a dialect or in purposfully poor english for effect.

There is another set of implicit standards often used that I think is more misguided than the first. This is the set of standards derived from carrying the standards of a game (particularly table-top dice role-playing) over to the art form of freeform role-playing. This is how ideas like power-gaming, obediance to setting rules, prowess in combat, and strategy have become part of the aesthetic judgements made about freeform RPing. The results of these judgements are not neccessarily incorrect (for example, power gaming characters are almost without exception of below average quality), but they are based on the faulty assumptions of a game-bound mindset and can cause poor quality judgements. For example, prowess in combat is a good thing in a tabletop DND game where it allows you to win more effectively, but in a freeform role-playing situation, a battle lost with nuance and style is often far better than a battle won with cold strategy (even if the battle is fought fairly). One needs to escape the formal, strategy-oriented, rules-bound mindset of a game before they can enter the more fluid, style-based perspective of art.

So, what do I recommend as an alternative theory of role-playing aesthetics?

I'm promoting something that I'm going to call "character based aesthetics."

The character is the central medium of any freeform role-playing experience. Unlike other artforms, there is no single author or creator of any role-playing experience, thus all other stylistic devices, such as plot and atmosphere, must be channeled completely through the player's character or characters. Nothing in a FFRP can existence independent of a character, since there is no DM or universal author to provide such external factors.

Thus, the ultimate judgement of one's skill as a role-player must be of one's skill at creating characters. Even the best of plots and the most brilliant atmospheric touches will seem arbitrary and false if they are not effectively challenged through the personality of an effective character.

So, whay makes for an effective character?

An effective character possesses a complete, stylistically interesting, and knowable* personality.

Character effectiveness is not derived from what powers a characer possesses or how completely a character mimicks some preconconcieved idea of what, for example, an elf or a vampire should be. Focusing on what a character can do or is, while neglecting what a character percieves and how a character expresses itself can be crippling. In fact, such a mix up of priorities is probably the single largest mistake that I have seen made frequently by veteran players. The attributes of your character communicate only what they are and they do so without provoking any more interest than a dry textbook, while the personality of your character always communicates more than what is explicitly stated and is always far more interesting.

A good personality does not have to be complex (although one's ability to sustain the interest of others in a character will often be based upon how carefully nuanced a character is), but it must be interesting. Quirks and flaws are mandatory, because they add depth and vulernability. A unique communication style is also benefical, because dialogue will often be your character's primary form of communication (since nonverbal communication can be extremely difficult in written RPs) and dialogue provides your best opportunity for catching and holding he interests of others. A consistent, practiced tone and outlook for your character is also helpful, since they will ground your character and create boundaries for your character's personality that will create a sense of percieved consistency and symetry in those with which the character interacts. There are certainly other possible methods as well, but those are the suggestions that immediately come to mind.

Well, those are my thoughts on the issue. What do you think?

* When I say "knowable," I do not mean translucent or lacking in mystery. I simply mean that other players should feel that they "know" and can percieve the uniqueness of the character's personality after interacting with it.
 

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Kalreil

First Post
Well put. Yes, people should feel like the the characters the interact with,including their own, are people. In a way at least. AS for what makes good roleplaying? That depends on where you are. on Isrp,and Dykal from the logs I have seen, one line posts are the norm.Things are said and done with one line posts. Nothing wrong with this to me, as long as there is at least some detail of whats going on.Other places, like the yahoo chats before they were taken over by people looking to cyber, a "Good" rper posted no les than three lines, and that was pushing it. Some people would post entries to a tavern longer than your post. In that style length matters, not so much what was being said, most people ended up repeating things several times. As I see it, say what needs to be said and be done,one like or twelve, it matters not.

http://www.freewebs.com/newtsunamiarmy/RP.htm

That is a good sum up of the yahoo style, and as it says it is a basic version or it.Now, the set up is different some what between here and there, as here things are done more as the Character, yahoo type is done more from the view of someone watching the Character.If that makes any sense at all. I much prefer it here as to there, on account of no one is expecting anything, if all I say in a post is "Yes" no one is bothered, and it wont ruin any chance I have to continue the rp.It only takes so many words to walk in and order a drink, and to me writting an essay on it is absurd.
 

Shadow_Legend

First Post
I can definantly see where Nugan is coming from with this.

Here's two seperate examples...

EXAMPLE A

Finneus the dwarf walks into a bar. He's wearing plate mail armor and an axe and has a long red beard. He walks up to the bartender and says,
"Can I have a drink?"
The bartender replies,
"Certainly, sir."
Finneus drinks the drink.
"Oh, this is good ale. I killed a lot of orcs today."


In direct opposition to...

Finneus walks into the bar, his face bruised and swollen. The dwarf has the broken shaft of an axe in one hand, and a pair of pink thong underpants in the other. He sits down at the bar, and glares at the bartender with some kind of contempt.
"Kinnae gimmie a drink, laddeh." The bartender, clearly bewildered, looks at Finneus.
"Yeah, whaddya want?" The bartender says in a thick new jersey accent.
"Ale, laddeh, an' keep it comin'." Finneus replies, and drinks his drink, spilling most of it down his shirt.
"Ain't fraggle rock ale, hahaha." Finneus replies, wiping his mouth. "It'll do, laddeh. Takin m' knife to th' ladehs, makes a dwarf a mite thursty, if ye kin."


Bam. In the course of a conversation, we go from two very drab, very plain characters, almost out of an LOTR book, to a mouthy bartender from Jersey and a messy prostitute murdering dwarf. It's a bit warped of an example, but the point is this- the little things about your characters speak way more than blocks of text and Gimli/Legolas wannabes.
 

Qijdi

First Post
Well Well Well.... Someone finally had the Hudspah to say it...


WE have maintained for many years of the necessity for scenery generation and proper personality placements/endowments.. It adds to the flavour of play... real life to an otherwise almost blank medium... The reason Qijdi had and has been so successful over the years is due to a solidly based personality, set ways of doing things, and never forgetting to make the presence well founded and thoroughly played to the hilt and exclusion of all else... One of the reasons we have not been in of any reason for recent months is due to the excessive lack of anyone FOLLOWING ANY KIND OF STRUCTURE... The stories of Olde were not jsut based on flim-flam and dry rot that is guilded with lies, deception, poor acting and no planning... The efforts of others to impose structure have been inneffectual at best save to empty the halls even more of those players who wish to have real game.. Arbitrary and capricious action and decision has been definitely an incindiary toards demolition...as has continued laxity of forme... Veteran or not.. it is up to the players to generate the " Atmosphere " as well as the story or neither exist with any sincerity... This has long been one of the founding factors of FFRPing... Indeed... free form has the benefit of allowing more freedom to play about with characters and styles, but that also takes knowledge of said types... there is nothing wrong in getting together with other players and hashing out what is to be done... Questions lead most often to answers..when sought eagerly..

For example... Q never really hides his heritage... not really, as is the nature of his clan type, but it is not mentioned unless someone else brings it up..still.... to him it is olde news and unimportant... Furthermore... He has not changed his ways even after all these years just as I have not... for one comes out of the other. It is a matter of letting go and really delving into the roll... Come to think of it.. the www.answers.com toolbar has a copious list of answers for almost any question and has helped me when I've been in tight scrapes for those obscure details which were ultimately needed to handle such a complex and long lived character as Goldy.. We have been successful in these ways since his creation on May 19th of 1996 when Rama blessed me with him... An essential part of any good RP session is the mystery of events that are unfolding before us... the thing is... if we do not follow the mode of play to the hilt??? then we have no play at all... and what's the point?? We most definitely enjoy a good round or three when folks actually bother to participate instead of being absorbed in various trysts which are often nonsensical or applicable to the character type they are portraying... Folks who play in such a fashion often get dismissed from Our sight without another look or even manage to go unnoticed entirely... I mean it's all well and good to play something different like a mindflayer or beholder or the like, but they do not just generally come up to say, " Hi!... * grins blink-blink * How are you, you pretty thing... " unless they plan to do something about it in line with their roll... As it stands... there are still a few of us out here who actually know enough of proper method acting to assist those of you who don't... We aren't slamming you for being idiots or anything, just that we prefer to actually have a story and shoudl someone need info.. then for heaven's sake! Ask!... secondly... Constructive criticism is never remiss when it is properly founded... It may sometimes be harsh, but this serves to help us to be better players in the end of all beginnings... There is nothing wrong with putting a character on the chopping block unless one is not willing to sacrifice the character.. So have the good sense to create some characters one can handle to do just that... Folks will work with each other if there is a plan ( on a general basis that is ) Silver played one of the most believable Trolls on the site ever by the name of Brutal Bone Grinder.. Right down to the grosse nature of the beasts... Frankly... he even had my food rising one night, along with everyone else in the room when he came in after thrashing White Rose.... Now That's~!!!! Acting... FFRP is not just about stats and figures and so on.. it is about the True Arte Of The Theatre... It has been a honor to play Qijdi and the few others We've chosen as parts of the wheel... One more mention... If one does not know what to do in a fight... then it is best not to get into one unless necessary... then.. frankly.... seek out those who know and have them help coach so that the next time said battle will be more pleasurable and realistic for we all... especially the combatants...

Anyhoo and Anyway////of hoo'ness... That's my thoughts for the night..

Rama Bless,

Au.
 
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Magi_Trelian

First Post
Just to make the point out loud (though no one has said otherwise): there is no exact right way or wrong way to play a character. It can be very enjoyable for yourself and others if you have a well-defined character with consistent attitude and style and motivation appropriate to its background, but some people like to hang out in ISRP without that.

As for detailed expositions that make one's gorge rise, please note the Code of Conduct's prohibits the following:

Discussion of or in-character enactments of graphic violence, bloodletting, rape, torture, slavery, etc. This means no descriptions of entrails all over, no lurid descriptions of blood spattering and fountaining all around, no depictions of rape, or detailed accounts of rape, no torture or cruelty such as found in slavery situations, no enactments of slavery or the process of enslaving someone.

And also:

Finally; In Character play never justifies breaking the Code of Conduct. The Code of Conduct always takes precedence over a character’s nature, concept, alignment, what have you.

Please just remember to keep those in mind when/if you decide to go for more "in-depth" RPing. Other than that, have fun with it!
 

Nugan

First Post
Magi_Trelian said:
Just to make the point out loud (though no one has said otherwise): there is no exact right way or wrong way to play a character. It can be very enjoyable for yourself and others if you have a well-defined character with consistent attitude and style and motivation appropriate to its background, but some people like to hang out in ISRP without that.

This issue came up on the original thread as well, and I probably should have edited my topic to clarify the point. I'm definitely not proposing that just-for-fun role-playing is, by any means, wrong. Many people prefer to role-play for simple enjoyment,and they have every right to do so. I'm also definitely not arguing that there should be rules governing ffrping. Quite the opposite, if role-playing is an artform, composing a concrete set of rules or regulations would be like creating a list of regulations to govern how novels and poetry should be written or how art should be create. (Movements like post-modernism and abstract expressionism have effectively shown how absurd it is to try hold artists and writers to classic or traditional aesthetic standards.)

My intent in creating this thread was just to attempt to answer a question that I've heard expressed frequently, explicitly and by implication, which is: What constitutes quality in role-playing? I also hoped to provoke a discussion about whether or not freeform role-playing could be considered an artform, or if it was almost unanimously still seen as a game.

Anyway, I want to reply to Qidji, Shadow, and Kal, but I have to run at the moment, so I'll attempt to respond later this afternoon.
 

Dribble.

First Post
About arts. People usually think that everything that requires more than a standard level of intelligence, knowledge and/or application is an art.

I've heard people saying that interrogation is an art. From that point of view, riding a bike in a rugged road would be an art. But guess what. It's a sport :p

I myself, can't define what an art is... my brain's not enough for that. But, from my point of view, role-playing is -not- an art. Is a game. Hence the "playing" part.

As bike-riding (or whatever is the name in english) is a sport, and writing is an art, role playing is a game. Nothing else.

Whoo, all those separated short paragraphs make it look all serious-like :p... sorry, had to say it :p
 

Nugan

First Post
Dribble. said:
About arts. People usually think that everything that requires more than a standard level of intelligence, knowledge and/or application is an art.

...

I myself, can't define what an art is... my brain's not enough for that. But, from my point of view, role-playing is -not- an art. Is a game. Hence the "playing" part.

As bike-riding (or whatever is the name in english) is a sport, and writing is an art, role playing is a game. Nothing else.

I agree that the word "art" has become more flexible than it once was, and some people now find artforms in sports, crafts, etc. that are not artforms in a traditional sense. Although, unlike you, I think this is probably a good thing, since one's work (or one's recreation) takes on greater significance and value when viewed as an art rather than an activity.

However, even if you grant that these activities are not artforms, I think there is still a strong case for labeling freeform role-playing as an art. In fact, the case that FFRPing is an art is probably stronger than the case that it is a game.

Freeform role-playing really lacks almost all of the features that we normally associate with games. There are no "rules of play." (Individual sites may have content and setting guidelines, but that has more to do with protecting minors and clarifying location than with standardizing or streamlining play.) There are no boards, dice, spinners, balls, scorecards, manuals, controllers or other paraphenalia normally associated with games. There is no win condition. There are no winners or losers at all. In fact, nearly every attribute that we would normally associate with a game is absent from freeform.

The word play is not exclusive to games either. Theatre troupes often call themselves "players," and theatre is one of the oldest and most universally accepted artforms.

While freeform lacks most of the attributes of a game, it possesses many attributes associated with artforms, particularly drama and literature. It is fundamentally about creativity. It has dialogue and characters. It has plot (to some degree). If it's online, it can produce a text capable of being read and appreciated by those not involved (in the form of a forum thread or a chat log). Yes, it is created through interactions with others and at least partially improvised, but so is improvisational theatre. It has the potential to be funny, sad, dramatic, contemplative, exciting, and to elicit a full range of other emotional responses. All of these things are decidely artistic.
 


Kalreil

First Post
What makes good RP? Pepole having fun.If its your thing to make huge posts with great detail, fine.If you prefer short ones, thats cool too.
Bad rp? People not enjoying themselves.Be it from style conflicts or a plots that for some reason disagrees with a person.Though in my opinion the first is a rather lame reason.
Yes, I think it can be thought of as art.While not as refined as a novel, I have seen some that are just as entertaining if not more so than novels. Yes it is a game, but it is the players that make it more,it is like writing a book where all the characters have litearly minds of their own.No, not all is art, but the potential is there for it to be more than a game. And to most people,admit it or not, it is far more than a game.Something bad and unexpected happens, and it has a good chance to have real life effects, same with good things.There are plenty of times that people become friends or enemies OOC for things that happened IC.
 

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