Roll20 users; are my impressions right or wrong on this

[Dannyalcatraz]

You mean like this fella?

View attachment 101956

He is a white guy right?

Well, He always saves, so...

 

[Shasarak]

Clearly Lisa Stevens thinks gamers can do better to represent women and other disadvantaged groups. Let her actions speak: look at the representation in the pages of a Pathfinder book and compare with AD&D.

We can do much better than we did back then and we should.

Who would have known that she knew the secret of getting women interested in roleplaying games was to let them play blood drinking undead monsters.

 

[epithet]

Maybe you should make yourself more aware. Go find a a couple women or minority folks you don't already know, who have been playing for a couple of decades, and talk to them about their experiences. That will be anecdotal, but it will be a start.

I started playing D&D about 40 years ago, and I was introduced to the game by a hispanic kid, my best friend Alberto. Since that time I have played D&D with hispanic, black, asian, and white kids and adults. In the late 80s I started playing RPGs, including AD&D, in groups that included girls and women. My current group includes women. I say this only to provide context for the following: I have only ever known one person who found AD&D offensive. No one else objected to the boobs in Deities and Demigods, nor Oriental Adventures, nor the chainmail bikinis. The one person who got offended "found Jesus," and decided that any alluring image of a woman was temptation sent by the devil. He was the only one.

I'm not trying to say that there aren't folks out there who might have been offended by any or all of that, clearly there are some. I am saying that it is wrong to imply that by finding "a couple women or minority folks" you'll find people who got offended by D&D 20 years ago. You might, but that's not been my experience. I've known people who've lead sheltered, nurturing lives free from persecution, and I've known people who have endured and barely survived the most horrendous abuse. I've never known anyone other than that one religious guy who was offended by D&D.

It seems to me - and this is just my perception here - that most of the people who are getting offended by the depictions of women, asians, black people, etc. in D&D aren't in fact women, asians, or black people. No, most of the offended people are white dudes who feel like it's their solemn duty to get offended on behalf of the women, asians, and black people because those folks can't stand up for themselves. That, too, is a position at odds with my experience, but your mileage may vary.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I can’t say I was so much “offended” as profoundly disappointed by the whitewashing in the hobby- games, cultural stereotypes, the art, the playing pieces... It’s a distinction that few people make, in large part because “offense” has become the colloquial catchall term for opposition to flawed norms. To me, making the distinction understood usually wastes time addressing the underlying issues.

My own experience? I’m a creole from Louisiana. My known ancestry is so varied, I call myself “human gumbo” or “Crayola 64”, but on official documents, I’m whatever checkboxes the institution in question uses to describe someone mostly black/Hispanic.

I have encountered so few gamers of color since 1977 (in 5 cities in 3 different states) that I haven’t even bothered to ask their take on it. I’ve seen more ethnic minorities at heavy metal concerts than at gaming tables and in the stores.

Of the 5 women I’ve gamed with, 3 were in one group. That group also contained the only out gay player I’ve met, and after one player moved out of state for a post-graduate program, consisted entirely of pagans except myself.

I can’t speak for them in general, but in another setting, one of those players introduced me as “Catholic, but cool with wiccans.” So I can’t help but think that they’d had problems finding games where they were welcome.*









* perhaps it was their many invites to “come party skyclad”...

 

[Greg Benage]

To be very clear, I’m not offended. I just want the hobby to be welcoming to all kinds of people, and better representation of marginalized groups does that. We’ve already seen the payoff with the improvements that have been made in the last several years.

Keep it going!

 

[Lanefan]

My own experience? I’m a creole from Louisiana ...

Of the 5 women I’ve gamed with, 3 were in one group. That group also contained the only out gay player I’ve met, and after one player moved out of state for a post-graduate program, consisted entirely of pagans except myself.

I can’t speak for them in general, but in another setting, one of those players introduced me as “Catholic, but cool with wiccans.” So I can’t help but think that they’d had problems finding games where they were welcome.

Was this while you were still in Louisiana?

If yes, this makes sense, in that acceptance of Wicca and other neo-pagan religions down that way has always been much more of an uphill battle than in some other areas.

 

[Lwaxy]

Hey seriously, the idea that we do most things naked isn't true! Especially not in winter!

 

[Xaelvaen]

I started playing D&D about 40 years ago, and I was introduced to the game by a hispanic kid, my best friend Alberto. Since that time I have played D&D with hispanic, black, asian, and white kids and adults. In the late 80s I started playing RPGs, including AD&D, in groups that included girls and women. My current group includes women. I say this only to provide context for the following: I have only ever known one person who found AD&D offensive. No one else objected to the boobs in Deities and Demigods, nor Oriental Adventures, nor the chainmail bikinis. The one person who got offended "found Jesus," and decided that any alluring image of a woman was temptation sent by the devil. He was the only one.

I'm not trying to say that there aren't folks out there who might have been offended by any or all of that, clearly there are some. I am saying that it is wrong to imply that by finding "a couple women or minority folks" you'll find people who got offended by D&D 20 years ago. You might, but that's not been my experience. I've known people who've lead sheltered, nurturing lives free from persecution, and I've known people who have endured and barely survived the most horrendous abuse. I've never known anyone other than that one religious guy who was offended by D&D.

It seems to me - and this is just my perception here - that most of the people who are getting offended by the depictions of women, asians, black people, etc. in D&D aren't in fact women, asians, or black people. No, most of the offended people are white dudes who feel like it's their solemn duty to get offended on behalf of the women, asians, and black people because those folks can't stand up for themselves. That, too, is a position at odds with my experience, but your mileage may vary.

Similar experience here. My first full-sized gaming group had three ladies in it; this wasn't the 80s, and instead the very early 90s, but similar experience, and they weren't offended - they found the art amusing, if it warranted any attention at all, which was the most common reaction. They were gamers - the books back then damn sure weren't for the overly hair-sprayed heroes, they were for stats, story, and making a world together.

I've played with a great cast of people over 28 years of gaming, of all walks of life, and it has been an honor, and privilege, to have experienced this game with every single person who has influenced me, which is why I loathe every form of discrimination there is. Every person, regardless of who they are, or where they come from, or how they are born, has something unique to offer to the game - and I emphasize every person... except asshats. They aren't people.

 

[epithet]

...I can’t speak for them in general, but in another setting, one of those players introduced me as “Catholic, but cool with wiccans.” So I can’t help but think that they’d had problems finding games where they were welcome.*

* perhaps it was their many invites to “come party skyclad”...

Let me tell you, in Austin back around '90 the Wiccans were playing a lot of D&D. There was a lot of overlap among the pagans, the SCA, and the folks from Origin Systems (makers of Ultima, Wing Commander, etc.). I never actually played D&D with Richard Garriott, but I played with a few people who played with him. I feel like I missed out, though--despite dating a wiccan and hanging out a bit in those circles, I never actually played D&D nekkid.

 

[Lwaxy]

Does R20 have a limit on how many people they sponsor? If so, being picky makes sense. Was there a none white - ideally black female - option around at this time? If yes, being picky makes sense. I have heard of no one they picked instead of "5 more white guys" so there is probably no one around they would rather sponsor. Which makes this smell like discrimination, even if it wasn't.