Roundabout Charge

[Dan'L]

Even before Charge got redone in the latest rules update, I thought this needed to be clarified; now even more so:

Roundabout Charge
Prerequisites: 11th level, rogue, trained in Acrobatics
Benefit: When you charge, you can end your movement in any square adjacent to the target from which you can attack it.

How would you adjudicate the movement of the charge? Since RAW, each square of movement must take you closer to your target, I'm not sure how you can end up in just any square around it.

The best I can come up with is to select the square you want to end up in, and then each square of the charge's movement must take you closer to that square.

-Dan'L

 

[Aulirophile]

Even before Charge got redone in the latest rules update, I thought this needed to be clarified; now even more so:



How would you adjudicate the movement of the charge? Since RAW, each square of movement must take you closer to your target, I'm not sure how you can end up in just any square around it.

The best I can come up with is to select the square you want to end up in, and then each square of the charge's movement must take you closer to that square.

-Dan'L

Specific overrides general. General rule is "every movement takes you closer" Roundabout Charge specific is "you can end in a square you couldn't normally end in." Really it hasn't changed in functionality at all.

 

[Samir]

Specific overrides general. General rule is "every movement takes you closer" Roundabout Charge specific is "you can end in a square you couldn't normally end in." Really it hasn't changed in functionality at all.

I see nothing in the feat that overrides the "each square of movement must bring the creature closer to the target" part.

Or does it also override the "the creature must end the move at least 2 squares away from its starting position" part, too?

 

[fba827]

if I were making the final call on it at the table, i'd probably say something like - you charge to the closest square, but once you get to that closest square you can continue around to any square adjacent, and then make your attack. (rather than needing to end your movement at the closest square and attack from there).
the fact that it requires training in acrobatics gives this visual of sort of just hopping around at the end of that charge.

of course, i see nothing wrong with the interpretation of effectively charging to any square adjacent to the creature... this kind of equates to the same thing as i'm suggesting, with a couple corner-case exceptions.

anyway, just my thoughts -- your group/table/DM may interpret it differently

 

[Dan'L]

if I were making the final call on it at the table, i'd probably say something like - you charge to the closest square, but once you get to that closest square you can continue around to any square adjacent, and then make your attack. (rather than needing to end your movement at the closest square and attack from there).
the fact that it requires training in acrobatics gives this visual of sort of just hopping around at the end of that charge.

So, using it this way would then trigger an OA from the target of the charge?

-Dan'L

 

[Dan'L]

Specific overrides general. General rule is "every movement takes you closer" Roundabout Charge specific is "you can end in a square you couldn't normally end in." Really it hasn't changed in functionality at all.

Well, my point was that its functionality was not clearly defined to begin with. What defines your movement to that end point?

-Dan'L

 

[fba827]

So, using it this way would then trigger an OA from the target of the charge?

-Dan'L

Well, the way I wrote my interpretation above, yes, I suppose it would most likely provoke OA from the target of the charge.

Having said that, the more I think about it, it is a paragon level feat. I don't have much experience with paragon play as of yet so I wasn't even thinking in that mindset... but in comparison to some other paragon feats, a paragon feat should be fine for avoiding OAs by the target of a charge (heck, there is a heroic tier magic item that prevents OAs from more than just the target). So, all that said, I think the simplest way to adjudicate this without overly complicating the matter would be your original post possible interpretation where basically you can charge to any square adjacent to the charge target and charge to that square, rather than charging to the closest sqaure.

 

[MrMyth]

Prior to errata, I found it worked very clearly, since you just replaced the requirement to move to the nearest square with the requirement to move to any adjacent square.

Charge: "Movement Requirements: You must move at least 2 squares from your starting position, and you must move directly to the nearest square from which you can attack the enemy."

With Roundabout Charge: "Movement Requirements: You must move at least 2 squares from your starting position, moving to any square adjacent to the target from which you can attack it."

The new charge rules are, unfortunately, a bit harder to so easily swap the feat's effect in. But still, I'd see it as follows:

Charge: "The creature moves up to its speed toward the target. Each square of movement must bring the creature closer to the target, and the creature must end the move at least 2 squares away from its start-ing position."

With Roundabout Charge: "The creature moves up to its speed toward the target. The creature must end its movement adjacent to the target in a square from which the creature can attack it, and the creature must end the move at least 2 squares away from its start-ing position."

So again, same principle: Roundabout charge alters the standard movement requirement of the power. It isn't as clear how it works with the new charge rules, but this seems the only reasonable interpretation - if the other limitations remained, the feat would do nothing at all.

 

[Nichwee]

Prior to errata, I found it worked very clearly, since you just replaced the requirement to move to the nearest square with the requirement to move to any adjacent square.

Charge: "Movement Requirements: You must move at least 2 squares from your starting position, and you must move directly to the nearest square from which you can attack the enemy."

With Roundabout Charge: "Movement Requirements: You must move at least 2 squares from your starting position, moving to any square adjacent to the target from which you can attack it."

The new charge rules are, unfortunately, a bit harder to so easily swap the feat's effect in. But still, I'd see it as follows:

Charge: "The creature moves up to its speed toward the target. Each square of movement must bring the creature closer to the target, and the creature must end the move at least 2 squares away from its start-ing position."

With Roundabout Charge: "The creature moves up to its speed toward the target. The creature must end its movement adjacent to the target in a square from which the creature can attack it, and the creature must end the move at least 2 squares away from its start-ing position."

Or
With Roundabout Charge: "The creature moves up to its speed toward any square adjacent to the target, from which it can attack the target. Each square of movement must bring the creature closer to the destination square, and the creature must end the move at least 2 squares away from its starting position."

 

[MrMyth]

Or
With Roundabout Charge: "The creature moves up to its speed toward any square adjacent to the target, from which it can attack the target. Each square of movement must bring the creature closer to the destination square, and the creature must end the move at least 2 squares away from its starting position."

Oh yeah, that actually seems a perfect solution.