RPG Systems that allow for characters of diverse levels of Power

[Neonchameleon]

Cool! But, how and why was the BBC involved? Is EDEN somehow owned by the BBC?

That I have no idea about. The BBC had the UK license to Buffy at one point and a Buffy section on the website. And what I've linked is basically the quickstart rules plus an interview with someone from Eden. I think it was basically "give the quickstart for free - and someone gets to do some promotion while someone else gets easy content to put up".

 

[Theory of Games]

Lately I've been watching the amazing "Frieren: Journey's End", which for any unfamiliar, features a team of young heros accompanied by a 1,000 year old elf and it got me thinking again about wanting to play a game where one can play a mentor or elder figure like Gandalf or Frieren without overshadowing the other characters at the table. I'm sure there are a few systems that do this, Ars Arcana I believe has such a feature, as does Mouseguard, but neither system is to my taste, so I wondered if others know of RPG's where more powerful characters are not necessarily more important.

Most tabletop RPGs allow for this. It just takes a group agreement that the powerful characters won't step on the little folks. I really can't think of a system that doesn't embrace characters of different power levels.

 

[Reynard]

Most tabletop RPGs allow for this. It just takes a group agreement that the powerful characters won't step on the little folks. I really can't think of a system that doesn't embrace characters of different power levels.

I don't think that is true. If a game has, for example, a tight "challenge" system, having one character vastly more powerful than the rest can make it very difficult to engage everyone in combat without a bunch of artificial guardrails. I think you generally need more narrative systems to make it work, where players use metacurrency or "fail forward/succeed at cost" mechanics to be able to inform how their Scoob helps Buffy fight the Big Bad.

 

[payn]

I don't think that is true. If a game has, for example, a tight "challenge" system, having one character vastly more powerful than the rest can make it very difficult to engage everyone in combat without a bunch of artificial guardrails. I think you generally need more narrative systems to make it work, where players use metacurrency or "fail forward/succeed at cost" mechanics to be able to inform how their Scoob helps Buffy fight the Big Bad.

Yeap. Try this in PF2 and you will be making new PCs on a regular basis.

 

[Reynard]

Yeap. Try this in PF2 and you will be making new PCs on a regular basis.

For sure.

I am trying to decide how SWADE would handle it. SWADE is inherently swingy, and "power" is usually a matter of increased skills within a relatively small range, so on the surface it seems like it could work. but once you start folding in arcane backgrounds, super powers, high tech, etc... I think you end up in the situation where the "normal" characters will just be too squishy and not be able to hurt any opponent appropriate to the Big Guns PC.

So yeah, I stand by the idea that this is a thing you need at least free flowing metacurrency for (which is how Buffy did it, if I recall), or an inherently narrative system where "power level" is essentially an illusion.

 

[Theory of Games]

I don't think that is true. If a game has, for example, a tight "challenge" system, having one character vastly more powerful than the rest can make it very difficult to engage everyone in combat without a bunch of artificial guardrails. I think you generally need more narrative systems to make it work, where players use metacurrency or "fail forward/succeed at cost" mechanics to be able to inform how their Scoob helps Buffy fight the Big Bad.

Again I can't think of a popular tabletop rpg that makes it difficult for characters of differing power levels to engage in combat. Most of them accommodate varied levels. Take D&D: since the earliest of days there's been situations where a party levels together (somewhat) then one of the characters dies. So the player rejoins the party with a new 1st-level character. It wasn't problematic or even unusual. There were even rules for "Balancing Combat" like those listed in the D&D Rules Cyclopedia (pg. 100).
Then there's the entire genre of superhero rpgs that have to handle Batman teamed up with Superman.

What do you mean by "tight challenge system"?

 

[Reynard]

Again I can't think of a popular tabletop rpg that makes it difficult for characters of differing power levels to engage in combat. Most of them accommodate varied levels. Take D&D: since the earliest of days there's been situations where a party levels together (somewhat) then one of the characters dies. So the player rejoins the party with a new 1st-level character. It wasn't problematic or even unusual. There were even rules for "Balancing Combat" like those listed in the D&D Rules Cyclopedia (pg. 100).

Yeah, that 1st level character in the 5th level party pretty much had to keep their head down and enjoy the XP.

Then there's the entire genre of superhero rpgs that have to handle Batman teamed up with Superman.

Which super hero games do you think do this well? What sorts of systems do they use to make it work?

What do you mean by "tight challenge system"?

I was explicitly thinking of Pathfinder 2E.

 

[grimmgoose]

For sure.

I am trying to decide how SWADE would handle it.

I kinda-sorta-but-not-really did something similar with SWADE.

When I first started with this new group, I tried to incentivize the players by making a "chart" for how many sessions you needed to attend before you got an Advance. So, Novice characters only needed one session, Seasoned needed two sessions, Veteran/Heroic need three sessions, and Legendary needed four sessions.

(disclaimer: that was a bad idea, and it never gave me the results I was looking for - turns out, the game is what motivated the players, not an arbitrary leveling mechanic, but I digress...)

In practice, that meant the Reliables were 3-5 Advances ahead of everyone else. I didn't see too much friction at the beginning (Novice/Seasoned) due to the "horizontal growth" that SWADE gives characters. Eventually, it began to run people the wrong way (but that may be more of the, "why am I being penalized for going on a work trip - I literally can't play this week!")

 

[payn]

Again I can't think of a popular tabletop rpg that makes it difficult for characters of differing power levels to engage in combat. Most of them accommodate varied levels. Take D&D: since the earliest of days there's been situations where a party levels together (somewhat) then one of the characters dies. So the player rejoins the party with a new 1st-level character. It wasn't problematic or even unusual. There were even rules for "Balancing Combat" like those listed in the D&D Rules Cyclopedia (pg. 100).
Then there's the entire genre of superhero rpgs that have to handle Batman teamed up with Superman.

What do you mean by "tight challenge system"?

PF2 uses a +/level design which means you get a +1 to everything for every level. The crit/fail system uses a 10 under or over DC. So, when a challenge for a level X party is determined by the rule set, its very accurate, unlike numerous CR systems of D&D editions or swingy type systems.

The skinny is having a level 1 PC in a party of level 3+ would result in them not being able to effect enemies and being critted out of existence in short order.

 

[Theory of Games]

Yeah, that 1st level character in the 5th level party pretty much had to keep their head down and enjoy the XP.

Which super hero games do you think do this well? What sorts of systems do they use to make it work?

I was explicitly thinking of Pathfinder 2E.

Well I mean "keep your head down" is a trad lifestyle for low-level mages when combat starts. I've been in games where the low-level PC was the session hero.

The odd superhero rpg is the one that doesn't handle differing power levels well. Maybe GURPS Supers because the system is trying to be so sim that Hulk is killing people with a punch and that's not the mainstream experience? But most of the rpgs in that segment can do anything from "Mystery Men" to "Justice League United". Also if I may I'd like to note that not every superhero is meant to fight every villain:


I know teetee about PF2 but PF1 and I had a short but passionate "thing". It was my weird sort of AD&D 3e and I love running and playing it. BUT it's just D&D. Many editions of D&D have rules for handling "inserting" low-level characters into experienced parties.