D&D 5E Rule of Three - February 14th

[Klaus]

http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/dndqa/20140214

1 - "Doesn't the concentration rule effectively eliminate lower-level buff spells from a caster's repertoire once they get higher-level spells that are more effective?"

2 - "Would it be possible to have a feat that would allow spellcasters to maintain concentration on two or more spells at a time?"

3 - "Do main villain type monsters have ways to shrug off completely debilitating effects?"

 

[Lokiare]

2. Would it be possible to have a feat that would allow spellcasters to maintain concentration on two or more spells at a time?

This answer is inadequate. They could easily put a feat in that does this at a cost. Something like taking damage each round, having to make a concentration check and if failed losing both at the end of each round, or your second concentration spell can only be level 2 or lower, or any number of things.

I have no doubt that something like this will creep in at some point since they seem to be throwing balance out the window.

3. Do main villain type monsters have ways to shrug off completely debilitating effects?
"polymorph now breaks if the creature is reduced to 0 hit points in its new form, similar to how the druid’s Wild Shape works, making it so that if you polymorph the fire giant it’s more useful as a control technique than a pure encounter-ender."

Wait so either you have to track a separate pool of hp based on the monster you morphed it into, or this answer is pointless since 0 hp is dead. Either way its not a very satisfying answer.

Further I've already registered many complaints with the 'legendary/lair' mechanics: TL.DR: They basically feel like cheating. "I cast Hold Monster." DM "No, you don't, it suddenly moves out of range for no readily apparent reason not on its turn."

 

[Thyrwyn]

(in response to question #2)

This answer is inadequate. They could easily put a feat in that does this at a cost. Something like taking damage each round, having to make a concentration check and if failed losing both at the end of each round, or your second concentration spell can only be level 2 or lower, or any number of things.

Which he specifically says they have rejected because of balance issues. . .

I have no doubt that something like this will creep in at some point since they seem to be throwing balance out the window.

...Now you are upset with them because they won't do something you don't want them to do (make casters more powerful/have more options) for the very reason you don't want them to do it.



(in response to question #3)

Wait so either you have to track a separate pool of hp based on the monster you morphed it into,

a rough task indeed

or this answer is pointless since 0 hp is dead.

Assuming Polymorph still works the way outdated playtest material says it does, which we know it doesn't, because he gives us a partial description of how it has changed. Taken in context, we can assume that other aspects of Polymorph (and other save or suck spells) have changed.

 

[TwoSix]

This answer is inadequate. They could easily put a feat in that does this at a cost. Something like taking damage each round, having to make a concentration check and if failed losing both at the end of each round, or your second concentration spell can only be level 2 or lower, or any number of things.

I have no doubt that something like this will creep in at some point since they seem to be throwing balance out the window.

I just....
I can't ....
Huh?

Wait so either you have to track a separate pool of hp based on the monster you morphed it into, or this answer is pointless since 0 hp is dead. Either way its not a very satisfying answer.

Yea, those are called temporary HPs, and they've been around pretty much forever.

 

[pemerton]

It's good to hear they're looking at polymorph. I hope they keep looking, hard!

I've got nothing against concentration as an anti-stacking technique, but the fact that it's the main one they're using has one unhappy implication: martial buffers can't be a big part of what they have in mind.

 

[Lokiare]

I just....
I can't ....
Huh?



Yea, those are called temporary HPs, and they've been around pretty much forever.

Wait so you think that they would gain temp HP on top of being morphed, that would make the game extremely broken. You could turn a low hp creature into something with massive hp and it would be unstoppable, how would it work the other way though? You turn a high hp creature into a lower hp creature so they gain temp hp? I think its much more likely they are talking about an alternate hp pool you track based on the hp of the new form. Which means more paper work. What happens when they change back? Do they take damage on a percent basis? Do they remove hp equal to the amount removed from the morphed form?

Overall it just doesn't make sense as a good mechanic.

 

[Lokiare]

It's good to hear they're looking at polymorph. I hope they keep looking, hard!

I've got nothing against concentration as an anti-stacking technique, but the fact that it's the main one they're using has one unhappy implication: martial buffers can't be a big part of what they have in mind.

I agree. They need multiple keywords, with different meanings to control stacking spells. One could be concentration, another might be 'field' meaning it generates a specific frequency of magic that sustains it and another 'field' spell would disrupt it, but not a concentration spell.

Even with concentration on many spells the casters are still more versatile and powerful than non-casters.

 

[Thyrwyn]

It's good to hear they're looking at polymorph. I hope they keep looking, hard!

I've got nothing against concentration as an anti-stacking technique, but the fact that it's the main one they're using has one unhappy implication: martial buffers can't be a big part of what they have in mind.

Polymorph has always been contentious. . . but I think martial buffers could still work: a martial class with a few concentration buffs to choose from mixed with some instant or round-only buffs/aids. . .

 

[TwoSix]

Wait so you think that they would gain temp HP on top of being morphed, that would make the game extremely broken. You could turn a low hp creature into something with massive hp and it would be unstoppable, how would it work the other way though? You turn a high hp creature into a lower hp creature so they gain temp hp? I think its much more likely they are talking about an alternate hp pool you track based on the hp of the new form. Which means more paper work. What happens when they change back? Do they take damage on a percent basis? Do they remove hp equal to the amount removed from the morphed form?

Overall it just doesn't make sense as a good mechanic.

Well, they did mention Wild Shape, and the last packet I saw (I'm not closely following Next development), gaining temporary hit points was exactly what it did. There were several threads about it a few months back.

I don't think the allowable Wild Shape forms gain a tremendous amount of temporary hit points, so I can't imagine polymorph ones do either. It would be an illogical use of the spell as an enemy-targeting offensive spell, and an overpowered option as a buff.

 

[Klaus]

It's good to hear they're looking at polymorph. I hope they keep looking, hard!

I've got nothing against concentration as an anti-stacking technique, but the fact that it's the main one they're using has one unhappy implication: martial buffers can't be a big part of what they have in mind.

Martial buffers, as in a warlord's inspiration-based buffs? I could see a "stance" (to use a 4e term) based build that would grant buffs to allies as long as the character is in that stance (something like "battlefield awareness stance", allowing allies to move without opportunity attacks and ignoring difficult terrain, for instance).