Rule of Thump for Short Rests

[Evil DM]

Hi folks,

I think about the use of encounter powers after a battle. I did unterstand that it is possible for the cleric to support everybody's use of healing surges with his Healing Word Encounter Power.

But on the other hand I think one must keep track of the number of uses. Because for every support the cleric spends another party memeber, he has to wait another 5 minutes until he can use his power again.

Thus 5 minute become 10 minutes...15....20 minutes and so on. With only 4 uses so far.

Why do I refer to this topic? I think especially at the situation in dungeons. They have an own ecology, espacially hostile enviromants have something like watch turn, messengers run through the corridors, etc.

So for every minute they stay at the same are there is a cumulative chance that they will randomly encounter some inhabitant of the area.

As a rule of thump I'd say:
For every short rest they take there is a cummulative 10% chance that some inhabitant stumble across the adventureres.

What do you say?

 

[Nifft]

As a rule of thump I'd say

"Rule of Thumb".

Thumb = Daumen

Thump = Schlag

For every short rest they take there is a cummulative 10% chance that some inhabitant stumble across the adventureres.

What do you say?

I just say "no" to that tactic.

The Cleric's God is watching, and knows when he's actually in danger. PCs can spend healing surges without limit during a short rest. In trade, they get no bonus to their healing surges.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Syrsuro]

I wouldn't give them a wandering monster for the rest between encounters. I might have the encounter not really be over yet if they are fighting in an organized lair - but that would be a planned continuation, not a wandering monster.

The intent of the rules is that you have this short break between each encounter - its not equivalent to camping in the dungeon. Its just the demarkation between encounters -- you could remove the rest and just have the powers refresh on their own, but it makes it difficult to define the 'end of the encounter' without the rest period.

On the other hand, if they are taking a long break (using a bunch of encounter powers during the rest and taking multiple 5 minute breaks in succession) I might have them be interrupted. It depends on the situation.

I would give them wandering monsters if they try to take a 'daily rest' in a hazardous location. Or, more likely, they may find that the next encounter is going to happen whether they try to take a daily rest or not.

Carl

 

[DeathMutant]

"Rule of Thumb".

Thumb = Daumen

Thump = Schlag

I believe he really did mean "Thump" as in, "your rest is over, THUMP!"

 

[Evil DM]

Yes, I meant thumb - sorry.

I am not quite sure if I were able to present my intent correctly.

I know that a PC can take as many healing surges as he likes during a short rest. I care more about using healing encounter powers in addition to that. Because with the excessive use of encounter powers you have something like a mini-extended rest in the end.

It should go like this:

Battle is over and the PCs take a short rest to regain their encounter powers.

Player1: "I take two healing surges."
Player2: "What a waste. I wait until the cleric can support my healing surge with his healing word and healing lore which gives me another 1d6+WIS HPs."
Player1: "Oh yes. Good idea. I make that too."

5 minutes are over.

Cleric: "Okay, so I give you first additional 1d6+WIS HPs back. Now I need a short rest agin."

5 minutes are over.

Cleric: "Now it is your turn to gain additional 1d6+WIS HPs. Now I need again a short rest to be able to use it in the next battle."

5 minutes later

Cleric: "Okay. Let's go!"


Which makes a total of 15 minutes. Guess you have a party of 5 characters where everybody wants support for one healing surge. That would make 30 minutes (5 minutes in advance to regain the encounter power after the battle).

And I think 30 minutes are a pretty long time in a dungeon. Hostile enviroment. We play DnD. Isn't there a great deal about random treasure and wandering monsters?

Cheers, Evil DM.

 

[Nifft]

I know that a PC can take as many healing surges as he likes during a short rest. I care more about using healing encounter powers in addition to that. Because with the excessive use of encounter powers you have something like a mini-extended rest in the end.

It should go like this:

Battle is over and the PCs take a short rest to regain their encounter powers.

Player1: "I take two healing surges."
Player2: "What a waste. I wait until the cleric can support my healing surge with his healing word and healing lore which gives me another 1d6+WIS HPs."
Player1: "Oh yes. Good idea. I make that too."

DM: "Your god sees you wasting his emergency healing powers when you're clearly not in an emergency situation. He sends angels to spank you. ROLL FOR INITIATIVE!"

Or, if the DM is less of a jerk than me:

DM: "Nah, those powers are only for use in combat. Out of combat, you take 5 minutes to rest, and you spend healing surges normally. There are lots of technically legal things that aren't actually in the spirit of the game. Don't try to abuse those, okay?"

Cheers, -- N

 

[Evil DM]

There are lots of technically legal things that aren't actually in the spirit of the game. Don't try to abuse those, okay?

Err.

But according to this it is in the spirit fo the game.

Cheers, Evil DM.

 

[Nifft]

But according to this it is in the spirit fo the game.

Those people don't seem to have a problem with it.

However, because you are posting here looking for a way to limit the tactic, I'm assuming you do take issue with the free (and somewhat cheesy) tactic. If you do, it's easy enough to prohibit -- and doing so is perfectly balanced, in my experience.

- - -

The trouble with using wandering monsters as a balancing mechanism is: 4e assumes PCs go into each encounter fresh, with most of their HP and all their Encounter powers readied. A party that tries the rests 5 -> Healing Word x2 -> rest 5 -> repeat trick will NOT have most of their HP until near the last iteration, because they're delaying HP refresh in order to minimize Surges spent... and they also won't have their Healing Word powers back. So it's going to be hard on you as the DM to design encounters that are tough enough to serve as discouragement, but not so tough they kill PCs.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Evil DM]

I'm assuming you do take issue with the free (and somewhat cheesy) tactic.

Not exactly.
On the one hand I apprecialte this new system to regain HPs rather quickly. That's something why I like the new edition. Things keep moving.

But on the other hand I want the players to think about their tactic. That there may exist some times where it is not rahter useful. Thus I do not want to prohibit it - I just want some little mechanic where the players feel that it might be risky.

You know, to prevent some situations like in The Gamers.

DM: "After your escessive use of encounter powers and multiple short rests a patrol stumbles upon you which was on its way for watch turn."
Players: "How do you mean that?"
DM: "C'mon guys. You are in a dugeon. Hostile enviroment. With other guys around it. Do you think they are static monsters just waiting for you?"
Players: "But as an experienced adventurer I would have expected that..."
DM: "So why didn't you say that...?"


And the one fact why I want some dice rolling behind that is that it should not be upon the DM to decide whether a watch patrol or a wandering monster is around.

Let's give some tension back to the players:
DM with shackeling dice in his hand: "Do you dare to use another short rest?"

Cheers, Evil DM.

 

[Khuxan]

I think having random encounters is a good compromise. Try running this variant for some time and see if the players enjoy it. They may not: random encounters can detract from the flow of the game, wasting time.