Rules Clarification: Attacking while Dead

[WalrusThief]

Someone brought this to my attention recently, and it's been bothering me.

There are no rules that state you are in any way hindered by being dead.

When you are "dying" you fall unconscious (PHB 135), but this can be easily bypassed by Diehard (PHB 93). If you have Diehard, you do not fall unconscious while dying. The rules do not state that you fall unconscious when dead. You do not benefit from natural or magical healing and your soul immediately departs to one of the outer planes (PHB 307). It doesn't say that this has any harmful effects on your body. (I know this is ludicrous, I'm simply looking for rules backup.) The only issue I can see is things like Trap the Soul wouldn't work on you, and you probably couldn't use Incarnum.

I've only looked through the core books though. Anyone have any insights? Keep in mind I am only looking for RULES AS WRITTEN. I know that no sane DM would allow this to stand.

 

[Dandu]

This is addressed in the DMG, I believe. They say something along the lines of "A human is not defined as having two arms by RAW, but if a player shows up with a six armed human monk, he should be smacked upside the head."

 

[AuraSeer]

There's a point at which the rules have to trust you to understand English.

It may not be explicitly stated that a character is hindered by being dead, but that's because you know what the word "dead" means. Dead characters are dead. Pretending otherwise is just playing dumb.

 

[HoboGod]

The DMG should totally encourage violence against smart-asses.

 

[anest1s]

Someone brought this to my attention recently, and it's been bothering me.

There are no rules that state you are in any way hindered by being dead.

When you are "dying" you fall unconscious (PHB 135), but this can be easily bypassed by Diehard (PHB 93). If you have Diehard, you do not fall unconscious while dying. The rules do not state that you fall unconscious when dead. You do not benefit from natural or magical healing and your soul immediately departs to one of the outer planes (PHB 307). It doesn't say that this has any harmful effects on your body. (I know this is ludicrous, I'm simply looking for rules backup.) The only issue I can see is things like Trap the Soul wouldn't work on you, and you probably couldn't use Incarnum.

I've only looked through the core books though. Anyone have any insights? Keep in mind I am only looking for RULES AS WRITTEN. I know that no sane DM would allow this to stand.

To die, you have to pass through "dying" so you are unconscious, and to stop being unconscious you have to heal, so dead means dead.

Also in diehard it says that when you go -10 you immediately die, which implies time, and which in turn implies that you are dying very fast and suffer effects of dying as you would if you didn't have the feat.

Also your dead body decays. (Check Gentle Repose spell)

 

[Vegepygmy]

creature: A living or otherwise active being, not an object. (PHB glossary, page 306)

A corpse is thus an object.

Objects have no Wisdom. (MM page 312) Any creature that can perceive its environment in any fashion has at least 1 point of Wisdom. (MM page 312)

Thus, a corpse cannot perceive its environment in any fashion.

Objects have no Charisma. (MM page 312) Any creature capable of telling the difference between itself and things that are not itself has at least 1 point of Charisma. (MM page 312)

Thus, a corpse cannot tell the difference between itself and things that are not itself.

Have fun playing that totally unaware corpse!

 

[pawsplay]

Now I want to compile a list of everything you can do that is "not an action" as a list of things to do while dead. For instance, corpses can endlessly shift between holding a weapon and wielding it. They can also make saving throws against things that affect objects. They can, at the GM's discretion, speak to other characters...

 

[Theo R Cwithin]

Most dead characters can elect to take the "to blave" action, though it really depends upon exactly how dead the character is. To clarify:

Miracle Max: See, there's a big difference between mostly dead, and all dead. Now, mostly dead: he's slightly alive. All dead: well, with all dead, there's usually only one thing that you can do.
Inigo: What's that?
Miracle Max: Go through his clothes and look for loose change.

 

[Scurvy_Platypus]

Heh, a look at rule-lawyering death.

I suppose next up is rules regarding... let's call it bodily functions... since there's various rules about ingesting stuff and eating, but nothing regarding the other half of the cycle.

Maybe that's why goblins are cranky and green.

 

[WalrusThief]

Most dead characters can elect to take the "to blave" action, though it really depends upon exactly how dead the character is.

I love this. ^.^

creature: A living or otherwise active being, not an object. (PHB glossary, page 306)

A corpse is thus an object.

Objects have no Wisdom. (MM page 312) Any creature that can perceive its environment in any fashion has at least 1 point of Wisdom. (MM page 312)

Thus, a corpse cannot perceive its environment in any fashion.

Objects have no Charisma. (MM page 312) Any creature capable of telling the difference between itself and things that are not itself has at least 1 point of Charisma. (MM page 312)

Thus, a corpse cannot tell the difference between itself and things that are not itself.

Have fun playing that totally unaware corpse!

Thank you!

Now... what about animating the object that is the corpse? What is the difference, to the observer, between a zombie and an animated corpse? Thats probably a more philosophical question, so I might make another thread for that.