Rules Questions

[THExFALLEN]

My current question is how is Unbridled Rage supposed to interact with Critical Mass?

UNBRIDLED RAGE (EX)
Your anger knows no bounds.
Prerequisites: Rage 10/day.
Benefit: Once you enter a rage, your Strength and Constitution scores
increase by an additional 2 each and every round (above and beyond your
typical rage bonuses). Neither score can ever surpass double your initial enraged Strength or Constitution scores.

CRITICAL MASS (EX)
You can expend all your rage in a single round.
Prerequisites: Rage 20/day.
Benefit: You can expend all your rage for one day in a single round,
during which you multiply the benefits of your rage fourfold. After using
this ability you can no longer enter a rage (or be magically induced into
entering a rage) for twenty-four hours.

Does it make it so that a character who takes this can effectively quadruple their strength and constitution scores? Does it not combo at all? Does it just get you to double your strength and constitution immediately, or does it quadruple the rate of which your strength and constitution get to double or quadruple?

 

[FleshEatingBlackFlutterby]

I would rule that they don't interact at all.
The first is a slow build like a boiling kettle.
The second is more like a bomb going off.

 

[MazzelDazzle]

My current question is how is Unbridled Rage supposed to interact with Critical Mass?

UNBRIDLED RAGE (EX)
Your anger knows no bounds.
Prerequisites: Rage 10/day.
Benefit: Once you enter a rage, your Strength and Constitution scores
increase by an additional 2 each and every round (above and beyond your
typical rage bonuses). Neither score can ever surpass double your initial enraged Strength or Constitution scores.

CRITICAL MASS (EX)
You can expend all your rage in a single round.
Prerequisites: Rage 20/day.
Benefit: You can expend all your rage for one day in a single round,
during which you multiply the benefits of your rage fourfold. After using
this ability you can no longer enter a rage (or be magically induced into
entering a rage) for twenty-four hours.

Does it make it so that a character who takes this can effectively quadruple their strength and constitution scores? Does it not combo at all? Does it just get you to double your strength and constitution immediately, or does it quadruple the rate of which your strength and constitution get to double or quadruple?

I'd restrict it to a narrative-based chain explosion of raging, expending and flaring up once again. It's the kind of contradiction that would tear even a lesser immortal apart. You go into improbable hyper rage but after the encounter is over, you'll be left with the consequences of digging so deep and what that means for you moving forward.

I would rule that they don't interact at all.
The first is a slow build like a boiling kettle.
The second is more like a bomb going off.

Mechanically, I think this is the play but then again, I speak that as a person who sucks at numbers and higher math-ing haha.

It just seems like they're the kind of abilities where you'd probably spec into one path and only one. You're either looking for a build where you just KEEP raging or one where you harness your whole days worth of Rage into one showing.

Taking them both is like Coke and Mentos: You made something happen but at the end of it all, it's a waste of cola that you could enjoyed if you had just drank it normally.

 

[Upper_Krust]

I would rule that they don't interact at all.
The first is a slow build like a boiling kettle.
The second is more like a bomb going off.

That was my first thought as well. But I'm wondering if it would still all balance out okay.

 

[THExFALLEN]

That was my first thought as well. But I'm wondering if it would still all balance out okay.

From what I was calculating, it seems that adding a modifier total of about +6-7 adds about +1CR to a creature. That being said, if they did combo, it would potentially put the creature while raging albeit temporary, depending on the character build, eventually up one, two or even three divine statuses.

It would make sense, to not allow them to combo. Although, I like the idea MazzelDazzle had of them stacking but at great cost. Since the creature called "the amilictli" in The Immortals Handbook Epic Bestiary Volume One essentially could perhaps be the result of that and part of that great cost.

"The amilictli, or all-relentless thunders, are the manifestations of a
storm god’s unbridled anger. They are created when the rage of the god
outstrips the power of the deity itself to control. Many amilictli appear at
the zenith of great battles between deities when the berserk immortal
reaches critical mass and seems ready to explode with anger, but instead
its rage betrays them and evaporates like steam, coalescing into the great
swirling storm that takes on a rampaging life of its own.
Amilictli are manifestations of pure wrath, and they vent their
unbridled rage on any and all they encounter. However, thankfully,
amilictli are blessed with very short attention spans. They tend to lose
interest in their wanton acts of destruction unless suitably threatened.
The storm god parent loses its power over the weather while the
amilictli lives. As such, many take it upon themselves to slay the
monstrous offspring.
Sometimes, cults devoted to an amilictli develop amongst those who
have survived its passing. Often, these angry individuals are against
rebuilding areas devastated by the abomination, seeing it as blasphemous
to undo the handiwork of their god. They will seek to hinder or even
destroy any such efforts and consider the ruins left in its wake as holy
ground. Cultists wear loose fitting grey robes topped with tall pointed
masks. Those powerful enough will be in league with evil creatures of
the air. Cult sacrifices involve victims being thrown from cliffs, dropped
from great heights, or even violently launched from a catapult.
Amilictli are some 200 feet tall, though are virtually weightless, being
composed primarily of air and very angry thoughts."

 

[Upper_Krust]

Had forgotten I wrote that...not too shabby.

 

[THExFALLEN]

Oh, I have another question.

Is there a save usually involved with Poisonous Effect?

POISONOUS [EFFECT] (SU)
You can create poison based attacks.
Benefit: The effect deals 1 point of primary poison damage and a 1
point of secondary poison damage per six hit die of the immortal. The
immortal can choose which ability scores the poison affects. Or even
choose multiple ability scores by dividing the total effect between them.
e.g. An greater deity (100hit die) taking Poisonous Breath would gain a
breath weapon dealing 4 points of primary poison damage and 4 points of
secondary poison damage.
Special: This effect can be taken multiple times and its effects stack.
Each time it is taken it either applies to a different effect (see pages 116-
117), or it applies to the same effect as follows:
Taken twice = Greater Poison [Effect], original effect doubled.
Taken three times = Superior Poison [Effect], original effect tripled.
Taken four times = Perfect Poison [Effect], original effect quadrupled.
Taken five times = Positive Poison Mastery, use any type of poison
effect.
Taken six times = Uncanny Poison Mastery, shape area effects to only
target enemies.

 

[Obly99]

Oh, I have another question.

Is there a save usually involved with Poisonous Effect?

POISONOUS [EFFECT] (SU)
You can create poison based attacks.
Benefit: The effect deals 1 point of primary poison damage and a 1
point of secondary poison damage per six hit die of the immortal. The
immortal can choose which ability scores the poison affects. Or even
choose multiple ability scores by dividing the total effect between them.
e.g. An greater deity (100hit die) taking Poisonous Breath would gain a
breath weapon dealing 4 points of primary poison damage and 4 points of
secondary poison damage.
Special: This effect can be taken multiple times and its effects stack.
Each time it is taken it either applies to a different effect (see pages 116-
117), or it applies to the same effect as follows:
Taken twice = Greater Poison [Effect], original effect doubled.
Taken three times = Superior Poison [Effect], original effect tripled.
Taken four times = Perfect Poison [Effect], original effect quadrupled.
Taken five times = Positive Poison Mastery, use any type of poison
effect.
Taken six times = Uncanny Poison Mastery, shape area effects to only
target enemies.

I have reworked for PF because the poison rules change between 3.5 and PF1

Frequency 1/round for HD of the Immortal; cure a number of consecutive saves equal to the DR of the Immortal. The Immortal can choose which ability scores the poison affects. Or even choose multiple ability scores by dividing the total effect between them. Unlike the normal [Effect], a creature that fail the listed saving throw, must make a Fortitude save with the same DC or be exposed to the above poison. A Fortitude save DC 20 + immortal’s Constitution modifier + immortal’s divine rank negate for the form without DC (like Hand or Strike).

 

[Upper_Krust]

Oh, I have another question.

Is there a save usually involved with Poisonous Effect?

Yes...although, thinking about it now you could maybe also have a higher tier version that didn't have a save. But not sure exactly how powerful that would be compared to other Effects.

 

[Beefermatic]

Yes...although, thinking about it now you could maybe also have a higher tier version that didn't have a save. But not sure exactly how powerful that would be compared to other Effects.

I mean, technically you have Atomic Effect that has an upgraded Poison Effect as part of it's power suite