D&D 5E Rynic's Metamagic Compendium

[Zene]

If you look at page 202 of the PHB, you will see a description of range in the spellcasting context. I will draw your attention to the final paragraph on that page, "Spells that create cones or lines of effect that originate from you also have a range of self, indicating at the origin point of the spell's effect must be you (see "Areas of Effect" later in this chapter)."

This informs the discussion in two ways. First, it says flat out that the range of cones and lines originating from the caster is self, not self (but really) or self (plus). Second, it distinguishes between "range" and "area of effect" as game terms. Range, definitionally, is distance to the point of origin, while area of effect is the form the spell takes from the point of origin. In cone and line (and other) spells originating from the caster, the caster is tautologically the point of origin. The description in parentheses after "self" is the area of effect. Just as you cannot increase the radius of a fireball with distant spell, you cannot increase the length and radius of a cone of cold.

The one screwball that I know of offhand is sword burst, which has a range of five feet and no area of effect; it simply effects everything in range. That does work with distant spell.

Ah, makes sense.

Besides Sword Burst, Beacon of Hope apparently works like that too.

Telekinesis deserves special mention, because it allows you to move people/objects to the extent of its range, so if you're lifting and dropping things double the range is double the height and therefore double the falling damage.

Overall, though, that's a very short list. And the other uses --just doubling range, and extending touch spells to 30'-- seem very lackluster for a metamagic choice, unless you happen to be a "reach weapon with booming blade" build. I think Distant may take the cake as the worst metamagic.

 

[Rynic]

If you look at page 202 of the PHB, you will see a description of range in the spellcasting context. I will draw your attention to the final paragraph on that page, "Spells that create cones or lines of effect that originate from you also have a range of self, indicating at the origin point of the spell's effect must be you (see "Areas of Effect" later in this chapter)."

I get that, but my only concern is that there are a number of spells that could be written in the same way, for example, Detect Magic has a range of self but it doesn't have radius 30ft in brackets in the range, instead it's mentioned in the body. So, there are spells that say 'Range: Self (15ft radius/cone)' and then there are spells that say 'Range: Self' in addition to the body of the spell where the distance is mentioned.

It's nuts that you can't distant spell burning hands.

I get the feeling they did this to distinguished the spells for the purposes of metamagic use. They could have made it clearer by saying 'the spell can't have a range of self'

 

[Zene]

They could have made it clearer by saying 'the spell can't have a range of self'

Great point, that would make it totally unambiguous. In fact it's kind of strange that they didn't write it that way, if that's what they intended.

This is probably a good question for Crawford via the Sage Advice twitter. Anyone with a twitter account feel like lobbing it over to him?

 

[Rynic]

How should I word it?

'Can Distant metamagic be use on some spells with a range of self? If they have a distance noted in brackets in their range, for example Thunderwave (15-ft cone) but not Detect Magic, if not will this be errata??'

 

[Zene]

Yeah I think that's a good example. I'd suggest the following wording just to make it extra-clear:

Distant metamagic works on spells with range 5' or greater. Does that include spells like Thunderwave that say "Range: Self (15-ft cube)"?

 

[Rynic]

Don't have a twitter. I really don't want to create one, but I guess for science...

Arghh. The f'n word limit!

@SageAdviceDnD Hi! Distant metamagic says range of 5' or more. Does that include spells like Thunderwave that say: Range: Self (15-ft cube)?

https://twitter.com/Rynic2/with_replies

 

[Blue]

Just had an issue come up at last night's game. While any spell can be cast with Subtle, if it has material components then it's still noticeable and therefore able to be counterspelled. It's not that Subtle can't be applied to the spell though so I don't know if it's worth noting.

 

[Zene]

Just had an issue come up at last night's game. While any spell can be cast with Subtle, if it has material components then it's still noticeable and therefore able to be counterspelled. It's not that Subtle can't be applied to the spell though so I don't know if it's worth noting.

With a component pouch, sure. But if you use a focus, you just need to have the spell focus in hand. Arcane crystal in hand in pocket; Arcane staff that looks like a walking stick; Or if you're a sorcadin, cast those paladin spells while holding your shield that has a holy symbol engraved on it.

 

[Blue]

With a component pouch, sure. But if you use a focus, you just need to have the spell focus in hand. Arcane crystal in hand in pocket; Arcane staff that looks like a walking stick; Or if you're a sorcadin, cast those paladin spells while holding your shield that has a holy symbol engraved on it.

All Counterspell needs is you to see a spell being cast. If you see a spell being cast by it having somatic components, or you see a spell being cast by having somatic components, why wouldn't you see a spell being cast by material components? You may not be able to identify which spell if all you see is a component pouch in hand instead of a specific component, but that's a different case.

I see what you are saying about how it may not be noticable when a spell is actually being cast. This may come down to DM interpretation. What came up last night was: Any seen component allows "seeing a spell being cast" so it can be to counterspelled. I guess the thought is that it's not a trigger but a requirement. If I want to counterspell you, all I need is the requirement fulfilled.

 

[Zene]

If you see a spell being cast by it having somatic components, or you see a spell being cast by having somatic components, why wouldn't you see a spell being cast by material components?

If someone is incanting verbal components, I can hear it's a spell being cast and see their lips moving. If someone is waving their hands around Dr Strange style, I can see they're casting a spell. But if a spell only requires material components (a focus), and not verbal or somatic components, it is indistinguishable from just holding the focus. So what is telling me a spell is being cast? How would I know that guy with a hand in his pocket, or that paladin carrying a shield, are casting spells? Like are you envisioning visible magical waves radiating out from the focus or something? I don't think there's anything in the rules that indicates that --and if there were, that would make the designer's decision to call it "Subtle Spell" a very odd decision. Although sure you could houserule it that way if you want to nerf Subtle Spell.