Sacred Cows You Hope Die?

[Ian Demagi]

Scared Cows

Go away Please:

Save or Die spells
Level Drain
Specialist Wizards having prohibited schools
proliferation of stat debilitating spells
d6 's for most wizard spells

Need serious modification:

Saving throws
3-18 stats and 2 point stat leveling

Must keep:

Core classes
Core class abilities

Seems like it might be cool:

Racial abilities

Ian

 

[Wombat]

I won't get my wishlist...

Sacred Cows I would love to see BBQ'd include: levels, classes, hit points, alignment, Vancian magic, armour that makes you harder to hit, decimal coinage...

Yeah, I'm probably a bad fit.

 

[Jer]

My sacred cows that I'd like to see slaughtered, chopped into hamburger, and served up grilled with a slice of tomato, a bit of lettuce and some mayo are:

* d4 Hit Die for wizards (or for anyone - it works great in OD&D, but the scale is all wrong now - make d6 the minimum for Hit Dice)

* Magic Missile (get rid of it, make the wizard roll for an attack and have it do more damage, but no autohit spells)

* Spells per day (e.g. Vancian Magic - I don't care if there are some spells a wizard has to prepare and use on a "per day" basis, but every spellcaster should have his array of offensive and defensive spells that are usable at will or some number of times per encounter. A fighter doesn't go into combat without his sword and a wizard shouldn't ever be left without something to throw at an enemy).

* Invisibility that goes away after making an attack (I've never liked this rule - move invisibility to a higher level effect and drop the arbitrary duration constraint)

* Saving Throws (make everything consistent with the d20 attack/defense mechanic. There really shouldn't be any difference between a "touch AC" and a "Reflex save" - they both measure your ability to get out of the way of someone trying to hit you. So roll them together into a static number and let the person doing the acting do the rolling consistently in every case.)

Things that D&D needs to still be "D&D" to me:

* Classes
* Races
* Levels
* Rules that support a game centered around going underground, killing monsters, and taking their stuff
* Rules that don't get in the way of doing things other than "going underground, killing monsters, and taking their stuff" if you want to do more than that
* Hit Points
* Compare a d20 roll to an opponent's Armor Class to see if you hit
* Dragons
* Dungeons

Not to say that I don't enjoy games that don't have those elements - because I do. But any new edition of D&D needs those things for me to say "that's D&D". If I can't talk about how my 10th level Dwarven Fighter explored the Caverns of the Insane Warlock and got a lucky 20 to do the final X points of damage needed to smack down a red dragon and take his stuff, I'm not talking D&D. I may be talking a game that's a lot of fun on its own terms, but I'm not talking D&D.

(And note that I'm not saying that EVERY D&D game has to be like that - just that the game should support that kind of play. If I want to play a Planescape game where my 6th level Tiefling Spellthief beats a rogue Arcanoloth sage in a riddle game, that's still going to be D&D as long as the game also supports the play style above).

 

[Kahuna Burger]

Take out random generation and hit points, you'll take away from the excitement. With excitement, however, sometimes comes disappointment....that's just the way it goes.

nope. Creating is exciting in a different way than playing is. Take away my ability to create by adding unnecessary randomness to the creation phase and it removes excitement just as surely as removing the element of chance in play would.

 

[EATherrian]

In my experience the players who want rolls are those who like to "cheat" within the rules. They strive for powerful characters, and when fate deals them crappy ones they simply refuse to play them.

Get rid of randomness in character creation/developement.

I don't know. One of my favorite characters, using the much more onerous 3d6 6 times method, had a range from 8 - 13 in his scores and only had 2 hit points. He got knocked out in almost every fight, but he still went in there swinging. Leveling up for him really meant something, and I think I only rolled a 3 on that. I think everyone today just wants to play a super-hero. I like playing just a normal guy with special skills trying to be a hero.

 

[EATherrian]

I'm surprised that there are people out there that still prefer random attributes and hit points. Among people I play with, point buy and fixed hit points per class are standard, unless the GM wants to run an "old school" game as a change of pace.

If your group really wants random ability scores, one way to get around the unbalanced party issue is to have the group randomly roll an ability array which every PC can use, arranging to taste.

But I noticed I used all the exact same numbers when I did point-buy. It wasn't conscious, but it was strange. I'm one of the old time gamers, started with the Red Box, and it seems I'm one of the few that likes randomness. Heck I still create MegaTraveller characters for fun. Talk about randomness.

 

[avin]

- the magic system
- paladins

 

[Morte]

Alignment as a thing so concrete it has on/off mechanics (e.g. magic circle against evil).

The WIS ability, rather than the wisdom of the player. To hell with acting idiotic in the name of roleplaying unless I'm a divine caster. Let 'em use CHA.

Armour that makes you hard to hit, instead of granting damage reduction (excepting perhaps camouflage and illusions).

 

[JVisgaitis]

Then you should wait to post until you aren't having a bad day - having a bad day isn't a good reason to be rude.

I don't really feel I was that rude. I simply said this to clarify my position. Written word is a lot hard to get across then speaking with someone.

 

[HugeOgre]

Armor Class - Defense ratings per class based on level. The warrior guy wearing a loincloth should always be a valid character.

Your AC comment strikes me as particularly accurate. In its present form a naked 20th level fighter with a 12 DEX is as easy to hit as a naked 1st level Wizard (and possibly easier, if the wizard has mage armor and / or shield. ) Somehow, Id like to think in all those levels the fighter learned a little bit about ducking, dodging, feinting, and the like that would be represented in a different number besides AC 11.