Sainthood?

[BenjErik]

In the Book of Exalted Deeds there is a template for adding Sainthood to mortals.

One of the requirements of becoming a Saint is: You must have made a great sacrifice for the good of another (not necessarily your life).

Nothing is really coming to mind here though, what would you all suggest as some sacrifices aside from your life that are sainthood worthy?

Severe Injuries in battles fought for the church or the protection of innocents?
Sacred Vows?
Extreme fasting?

Toss me some inspirational ideas if you would! ~Thanks!

 

[molonel]

First of all, I'd bump the Saint template up to a +4 ECL.

Anything after that is negotiable.

 

[Roger]

Hmmm.

* Exchanging yourself for the freedom of a slave of the mind flayers.

* Giving all your worldly possessions to charity and becoming a street beggar.

* Making a vow never to speak again (which helped some other person in some way.)

* Marrying someone you dislike (which, again, helps some other person in some way.)

* Having your eyes put out.


That's just off the top of my head.


Cheers,
Roger

 

[Sejs]

Severe Injuries in battles fought for the church or the protection of innocents?

Not a sacrifice. Holding off a force (ideally single handed) to protect the innocent, in which you are 100% certain that you will die gets a bit closer. Getting hurt trying to attain goals or defend your own is not a sacrifice - saying that you are willing to give up your life in the persuit of what is right, and then following thru with that commitment - that's closer. Even if you don't die.. miraculously stabilized just before death, etc .. the act of following thru like that, putting your ideals before your own life, that's a sacrifice.

Sacred Vows?

In a system in which a Sacred Vow nets you superpowers in return for your denial, it's really not a sacrifice.

Extreme fasting?

Fasting while shredding down a mountain on a snowboard?

Nah, again, unless it's very significant, such that there's a -cost-, and a benefit to someone deserving, then it's not a sacrifice. What's being given up? Enjoyment of food?

* Giving all your worldly possessions to charity and becoming a street beggar.

Pretty much covered by VoP, so shouldn't count.

* Making a vow never to speak again (which helped some other person in some way.)

I think there's a Sacred Vow that covers that too, if I remember correctly.

* Marrying someone you dislike (which, again, helps some other person in some way.)

Heh, that's mostly politics.

The "having your eyes put out" and "willingly selling yourself into bondage in exchange for the freedom of others" are good ones, though.

 

[Voadam]

Giving up an artefact, permanent stat points, life force in the form of a level.

Passing up on kingship, high priest position, etc.

 

[jefgorbach]

http://www.catholic.org/saints/ (or any book on saints) would be a good starting place - with over 10,000 saints recognized by the catholic church, surely there's SOME good idea lurking for a character background!

(note: early saints were chosen by popular choice so merely having extermly high Leadership might suffice?)

 

[Stormborn]

Honestly I think it depends on the PC and the campaign (as what would be a great sacrfice to one PC might not matter to another) but I would think:

-Spending large amounts of XP and gp to create a magic item or items that you then give away to those that need them most.

-Refusing an honor that comes with wealth/power/prestige so that either another more desrving candidate can take it or so that the PC might continue serving his god.

-After spending a great deal of resources (time, money, hp, etc) to aquire an object of power for personal reasons voluntarilly surrendering that item because someone else (not in the party) needs it more.

-Going defensless to negotiate with an enemy and succesfully doing so after a period of torture and physcial and spiritual trials to prove your intent.

-Voluntarilly taking the punishment of a guilty but repentant criminal (such as lashes, branding, mutilation, or imprisonment). If the punishments are small then doing this as a pattern of behavior or if the punishment is severe then doing it once.

-Giving up all your goods (or a siginificant portion of them) to charity, or any of the other things that are covered in a Vow, but not actually accepting any of the benifits of the Vow.

 

[Guilberwood]

One thing that comes to my mind is that the sacrifice does not need to be voluntary.
Many people endure tragedies and, after that, discover a new way of life.

Just as an example, IMC a Lawful Good female monk with a vow of chastity was raped by a evil cleric. Her Goddess, Majere, could have stoped it but it didn't (the ways of the gods are not always clear to us mortals).
After the rape, she lost her vow of chastity but still follwed Majere and fought to defend the church, even knowing what her Goddess had done to her.

This sacrifice was important. She doesn't know it but a child will be born out of this rape, a very important child.

For this sacrifice, Majere gave her Sainthood

 

[Ravilah]

I'd like to add that in the case of many real saints, the sacrifices were not just one time events, but lifetimes of sacrifice and service. Mother Teresa spent her whole life working with diseased untouchables in a foreign country. St. Francis of Assisi gave up his nobility and wealth to live in willing poverty and pacifism (I'd agree with Stormborn that if you take the VoP or VoNonviolence with this, then "you have received your reward in full"). St. Francis also traveled all over Europe, in bare feet, to share his message of Christian piety.

By the way, I think Guilberwood's story is an profoundly good example of divine providence using evil to make good. More games should have stuff like that.

R

 

[Blood Jester]

...After the rape, she lost her vow of chastity...

Being forcibly raped would *never* constitute violating ones vow of chastity.