Samurai concept

[drowwanton]

I know there's a legit class for this, but I'm looking to make a Samurai esque character using the multiclass system. I've looked into Warlord and I think it being paired with Avenger would be good for a tale of a Samurai whose out for revenge for being betrayed by his lord. I would like to know what concepts you guys think would work well with this. Me and a friend of mine were thinking of making Samurai esque characters from like the same tribe. We kinda was looking into either Orcs or half orcs, but I also know that the Dwarves fit that role well. However, what other races would make for fine Samurai. Let me know your opinion.

 

[MoutonRustique]

The first thing to do would be: tell us what [samurai] means to you.

There are so many variants of pretty much all tropes and icons - there is little chance that what you think [samurai] is and what I think [samurai] is is similar.

Give us like... five (5) main attributes/stuff you're looking to find in your [samurai].

 

[drowwanton]

The first thing to do would be: tell us what [samurai] means to you.

There are so many variants of pretty much all tropes and icons - there is little chance that what you think [samurai] is and what I think [samurai] is is similar.

Give us like... five (5) main attributes/stuff you're looking to find in your [samurai].

By attributes what you asking. Like what I think Samurai are. I'm talking like traditional Samurai from the times of like Battle of Segikahara and stuff like that. I'm not sure where else that falls under, but I'm going to need a better idea of what you're asking of me before I hand you these 5 main attributes. You talking abilities like DEX, Wis, Str, or something of that nature or what

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

By attributes what you asking. Like what I think Samurai are. I'm talking like traditional Samurai from the times of like Battle of Segikahara and stuff like that. I'm not sure where else that falls under, but I'm going to need a better idea of what you're asking of me before I hand you these 5 main attributes. You talking abilities like DEX, Wis, Str, or something of that nature or what

Well, then, they would have to be Japanese people, would they not? I mean, CLEARLY if you say 'A dwarf could be a samurai' then that statement doesn't make sense to you, because clearly you have OTHER attributes that you consider to personify the idea of 'samurai'. It would be helpful to have a list of those attributes (I don't mean ability scores, I mean general characteristics).

Anyway, I've always thought that the emphasis on history, tradition, and martial virtues that 4e outlines as being typical of Dragonborn rather reminded me of Japanese traditions of bushido. A land of Dragonborn samurai-like warriors just feels pretty much like it fits to me.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Samurai are a bit of a "loaded term" in D&D because they're frequently been done badly. 3e did them particularly badly in Complete Warrior.

The OP has answered one key question, which is the time period: Sekigahara (and, I presume, the civil wars before then). Remaining questions would be:

Must they be human?

Which weapons? (Samurai from that time period used katana and spears mostly, but also nodachi and longbows. As usual, specialize. Note that an archer is filling a different role on the battlefield than a swordsman, more striker than defender, so different mechanical class.)

Urban or battlefield? After Sekigahara (and probably in the run up toward it) Japan had been at peace for quite a while, so "bathrobe" samurai often fought unarmored, with an emphasis on drawing your weapon fast and dishing out a lot of damage in one swing. This is very different than Oda Nobunaga samurai, wearing armor, wielding the longest spears in Japan, and fighting against samurai cavalry while behind screens while backed up by commoners with primitive firearms. From your avenger suggestion, you're looking at a "bathrobe" (so no armor) with a big sword that dishes out lots of damage in one-on-one duels... but that has magical powers that you may not be willing to accept and doesn't mix with a warlord at all. (Warlords are usually-armored team players.)

Mounted or non-mounted? (Samurai could do either, but there would be infantry specialists and there would be cavalry specialists.)

FX or no FX? (Supernatural or no supernatural?) For instance, would a kiai scream that paralyzes an opponent appeal to you, or does it sound silly? Do you want something more realistic and gritty?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Consider a rogue/avenger with sohei theme.

ditch any notions you have abt rogues, and look at the feat that lets you use longswords. I wish the wotc forums were still around, bc there was at least one thread about this over there.

Having sparred with Akido fighters, the rogue feels right to me for the speed and maneuvering of a classic Samurai. And certainly they can dish out a big chunk of damage with a single strike.

 

[MwaO]

I'd probably look at a Str/Dex Ranger|Fighter. You can use a bow with Twin Strike. You can hybrid talent for Tempest Fighter at 1st level to be really good with two short swords and defender AC in Hide Armor. MC Monk for an asian feel and access to Ki Focus+ability to power swap for Quicksilver Motion at 10th.

 

[MoutonRustique]

By attributes what you asking. Like what I think Samurai are. I'm talking like traditional Samurai from the times of like Battle of Segikahara and stuff like that. I'm not sure where else that falls under, but I'm going to need a better idea of what you're asking of me before I hand you these 5 main attributes. You talking abilities like DEX, Wis, Str, or something of that nature or what

Examples of answers I could work with (just one would be enough - I'm not looking for 5 of these, each is a "complete" answer):

A - Samurai Jack is the most awesome samurai!

B - Something akin to Ninja Scoll - though, obviously, samurai!, not ninja...

C - Samurai are proud warriors that are powerful in melee and never back down. They often lead a small number of troops during wartime and act as captains and commanders.

D - Bushido based abilities. Very resistant and quick. They can call upon the might of their honour and ancestors and use powerful shouts. They are masters of the single powerful blow.

E - Historic description of time period (I have very low lore ratings in feudal Japan...)

F - It's mainly a title (like "Knight" is today)...

G - something else entirely!

 

[Igwilly]

Samurai are a bit of a "loaded term" in D&D because they're frequently been done badly. 3e did them particularly badly in Complete Warrior.

Something I’ll change in my homebrew system!!!
But, just for notes, I’ve seen Samurai done as a good class. There are some fan-adaptations of the Final Fantasy series to table-top systems. They appear good to me. And, of course, there’s the series itself. But, in my honest opinion, it’s a concept too good to just throw it out of the window.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Something I’ll change in my homebrew system!!!
But, just for notes, I’ve seen Samurai done as a good class. There are some fan-adaptations of the Final Fantasy series to table-top systems. They appear good to me. And, of course, there’s the series itself. But, in my honest opinion, it’s a concept too good to just throw it out of the window.

I have a problem with samurai as a class because there's already one or more classes that cover most samurai concepts. You might need a new class if you're dealing with mystic samurai though. I don't see why Final Fantasy-style sword moves could not be powers or feats instead. A slayer with a feat that boost Power Strike (flavoring it as multiple sword swings, for instance, or as a single really fast strike) appeals to me. You don't need an entirely new class for such a concept.

D&D 3.0's "Oriental Adventures" did samurai pretty right. There was actually a class, but many of the NPC samurai were depicted as warriors or fighters, and could still take the Iajitsu skill and other samurai-specific abilities. I think things like ki shouts were feats too.

OA had several clans (I think there were seven) each of which focused on a fighting style. The Crab Clan actually focused on non-traditional weapons better suited for killing setting-specific monsters. The Dragon Clan focused on dual-wielding, which I want to make a point about: dual-wielding among samurai were rare, and the wakizashi was normally used defensively, which is where the Complete Warrior samurai fell down, but OA didn't deny the existence of dual-wielding samurai. It gave numerous options and let the player choose what they wanted.

Barring (mostly bad) flavor issues, leaving out the name, the Complete Warrior samurai seemed to exist solely so a fighter-type could dual-wield while wearing heavy armor and not having a high Dex score. The entire class could have been replaced with one new feat, "Armored Tempest Style" or something along those lines. Well, you would have to have one more feat for the weapon-that-levels-up-with-you but, again, make an ancestral weapon-style feat. You don't need a new class just for that.

I can't say I'm some sort of loremaster of Japanese history, but I like to think I read at least one more book than whoever wrote the Complete Warrior samurai. I distinctly recall reading about a battle that took place in the 1500s, where seven samurai got trophies: one of the samurai was using a bow, one got an award for first kill with a sword, and another got an award for first kill with a spear.