D&D General Sandbox Campaigns should have a Default Action.

[GMforPowergamers]

Players not wanting to play is a weird problem.

yup, but again I can remember 8 examples, if I am remembering all of them that is most likely 1-2% (naybe less) of my 30 years of playing

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I've seen it happen on occasion. Usually it's one of two things in my experience. The first is the players don't know what to do, either because they are overwhelmed with choice or the GM has thrown them into a "Okay, you're at the fair" type situation. Or they're just not that interested in the game.

If the DM starts you 'at the fair' and then has nothing of intrest happen at the fair I would wonder why start there... but if they see a fight break out, see a theif steal someones dagger, and see a strange comet over head and just say "Okay and?" each time... that is the problem.

 

[Reynard]

If the DM starts you 'at the fair' and then has nothing of intrest happen at the fair I would wonder why start there... but if they see a fight break out, see a theif steal someones dagger, and see a strange comet over head and just say "Okay and?" each time... that is the problem.

Hence why strong PC motivations are key. In a sandbox campaign the GM shouldn't have to constantly throw hooks at the players.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

If your players need to take action in order to find a story, motive, etc., I'd say the campaign (regardless of classification) needs a better hook.

yes and no... starting "Hey your in a bar and someone stumbles in half dead saying 'goblins...the caravan' and passed out" is a great... but if the pcs look up and say "Gee someone should do something about that" and then just sit there... the DM can only do so much...
(for the record I made that as outlandish as possible, it is not a true example... although pretty close to a WoD example I could give, just this is more simplified)

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Hence why strong PC motivations are key. In a sandbox campaign the GM shouldn't have to constantly throw hooks at the players.

why not? the players don't have to take every hook. The PCs are always welcome to make there own hook or line. but the DM is always required to give intresting things going on.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

If the DM starts you 'at the fair' and then has nothing of intrest happen at the fair I would wonder why start there... but if they see a fight break out, see a theif steal someones dagger, and see a strange comet over head and just say "Okay and?" each time... that is the problem.

Starting "at the fair" is quite a common trope for introductory adventures. The point is, it provides a low threat environment in which players can familiarise themselves with their characters, and get past squishy level 1. The "interest" is provided by engaging with the activities and minigames of the fair.

Now, if players can't become interested without high threat, then you have a mismatch of style between the DM and the players, but, to quote Raymond Chandler again "when in doubt, have a man walk through the door with a gun in his hand". In other words, if the players don't know what to do with themselves, start a fight. The who, what and why of it don't matter. That can be worked out later.

 

[Reynard]

but the DM is always required to give intresting things going on.

I disagree. That's one way to play, but it isn't "required." The GM is the world, and that means responding to player prompts (whether it is "what's in the chest" or "what's over the next hill") but it is perfectly acceptable, especially in a sandbox campaign, for the players to be "required" to make their own fun.

What you are describing is often called a "theme park" as opposed to a sandbox. Rime of the Frostmaiden is a good example of the form in a modern adventure. There's a whole bunch of stuff to do that just sort of sits there waiting for the players to make it go. It is a fun way to play, but not really a sandbox in the traditional sense.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Starting "at the fair" is quite a common trope for introductory adventures.

wow... since I rarly play or run at 1st level any more I missed that trope.

The point is, it provides a low threat environment in which players can familiarise themselves with their characters, and get past squishy level 1. The "interest" is provided by engaging with the activities and minigames of the fair.

seems fine to me, again I don't start at 1st much unless I am running with new players as a tutorial and I am more 'on the rails' with new players to guide them

Now, if players can't become interested without high threat, then you have a mismatch of style between the DM and the players, but, to quote Raymond Chandler again "when in doubt, have a man walk through the door with a gun in his hand". In other words, if the players don't know what to do with themselves, start a fight. The who, what and why of it don't matter. That can be worked out later.

that seems to be VERY much on a rail... were I may do that with a new party I would not start a sandbox that way.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

wow... since I rarly play or run at 1st level any more I missed that trope.

There is a 3rd level version in Call of the Netherdeep. It also crops up in Wild Beyond the Witchlight, amongst others. For an older example, see Neverwinter Nights 2. Which immediately follows it up with a man (dwarf) coming through the door with a gun (axe). Roll20 has a free introductory adventure of this type.

that seems to be VERY much on a rail...

It's a very short rail, more a kind of runway.

Which immediately gets the players started on the "who", "what" and "why". Which the DM can fill in response to the players' actions. Which was what Chandler was suggesting for writing a pulp novel.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I disagree.

I am not surprised.

That's one way to play, but it isn't "required."

I mean anyway is a way to play. You can play D&D anyway you want with strange rules, customs and styles... but for now I think keeping it to the basic ideas presented in the book is most likely best (although in a dedicated thread I would LOVE to hear the strange off brand way people do things)

The GM is the world, and that means responding to player prompts (whether it is "what's in the chest" or "what's over the next hill") but it is perfectly acceptable, especially in a sandbox campaign, for the players to be "required" to make their own fun.

so in your mind, (and I am asking not putting words in your mouth) it would be okay to start in a bar, have nothing happen, when the PCs go to bed for the night (I am assuming they don't have homes in this town and are staying at the inn) and the next day they wake up and nothing happens... no one approaches them to do a job, no one asks for help, no trouble presents itself... how long in your mind is OKAY for this sleepy little town have nothing happen if the PCs are not making things happen?

What you are describing is often called a "theme park" as opposed to a sandbox.

I call BS on this... a sandbox means there is a set amount of space (sometimes a whole world, sometimes a small settlement and surrounding area, or anything inbetween) that the PCs can choose to go anywhere in and it doesn't break the game (again sandboxes can have edges) where there are adventures to be had within those bounds... now I have (and will keep) saying PC generated plot is great (I live for PC generated plots) but in no way does the name sandbox REQUIRE all plots to be PC generated. (although a game where every plot from the kick off is sounds amazing, it also sounds rare)

YOU can make up new lables and throw them around all you want but I 150% disagree with this 'theme park' becuse to me a theme park is just a group of 'rides on a rail' that you pick from alacart. in a theme park there is 0 (or close to 0) PC generated plot.

Rime of the Frostmaiden is a good example of the form in a modern adventure. There's a whole bunch of stuff to do that just sort of sits there waiting for the players to make it go. It is a fun way to play, but not really a sandbox in the traditional sense.

I agree, no WotC adventure I have ever read is a true sandbox... but that doesn't mean no one that has plot hooks can run a sandbox