SAS D20 -- A disappointed view

[Bamphalas]

Thanks

Thanks Blacksad. I can see how that can work. It is an interesting work around. As long as the product doesn't explain a new method or system for applying experience, and just has a new chart, it can basically still use the generic experience method in the PHB:
Take your experience, compare to the chart, and improve character accordingly.
It eliminates levels while not quite eliminating the process.

New games should just be careful when they start explaining a whole new system. (If they intend on remaining compliant)

My personal preference in my role-playing games is levels, no matter if it's scifi, fantasy, supers, or any setting. Yes I know it's unrealistic, but it just feels more rewarding IMHO.

 

[Samurai]

That is not true, and I'm not sure where you even got that idea from my quoteyou attached to it...

Everyone can sometimes be disappointed when a game is not what they thought it would be. It has happened to me several times, both with d20 games and others. Through various means, people often form a preconception of what the game will be like before they see it, and if it strays from this too far, disappointment (or at least shock) are highly likely.

What I'm saying is that just because something is OGL or d20 does not mean it has to be the same as D&D. So far, most of the games have used very similar mechanics, but the newest batch of games coming out are trying to distinguish themselves from the crowd of "been-there-done-thats". M&M gets rid of the classes and the whole darn damage/HP system! d20 SAS gets rid of Feats (in a way, though GoO showed how easy it is to re-add them right here on this thread). Many other games in the pipes have a difficult decision... follow the full D&D model (races, feats, classes, skills, etc) and be more compatable at the danger of being a face in the crowd (and possibly a less than perfect system for the genre), or make some major changes, stand out more, and risk disappointing some fans who expected something closer to D&D. Not an easy choice, and the line between then is razor thin...

Sam, you seem to have this opinion that everyone who would like a d20 game to *BE* a d20 game is a rabid opponent of any other system.

I and many of the others would strongly disagree.I play other games than d20. I enjoy them.

And, while I personally feel d20 is the best system going (Hero being a close second), I have nothing against them.

I just feel, when I buy a d20 game, it should be highly compatible with my other d20 games, allowing me to borrow rules. This isn't about "d20-versus-the world".

 

[rayoman]

What is 4CtF?

Is 4CtF the game that was supposed to be put out by Natural 20 Press? Is this the game that was supposed to be out back in March/April?

Is this the game that had a write-up of a Druid with Super-powers?

I hope this game never comes out if this is their approach to doing supers. I don't want DnD with superpowers which is exactly what the game by Natural 20 Press looks like (at least looked like when I saw it back in March/April on their website.

 

[Bamphalas]

Is 4CtF the game that was supposed to be put out by Natural 20 Press?

4CtF has already been released by Natural 20 Press. You'd have to be living under a rock to have missed it.

Is this the game that was supposed to be out back in March/April?

We are discussing Silver Age Sentinels here.

Is this the game that had a write-up of a Druid with Super-powers?

Not sure, but it may have had one.

I hope this game never comes out if this is their approach to doing supers. I don't want DnD with superpowers which is exactly what the game by Natural 20 Press looks like (at least looked like when I saw it back in March/April on their website.

It's not D&D with superpowers. D&D and D20 or not different names for the same thing. 4CtF is a modular set of rules designed to be used with your favorite D20 game. Whether you are using Spycraft, D&D, D20 Modern, Farscape or any D20 setting, you'll be able to add it with little work. Although you are entitled to your opinion, you shouldn't wish someone failure just because you don't like their idea. If you don't like it, don't buy it. There are plenty for you to choose from.

 

[Lizard]

Re: What is 4CtF?

Is 4CtF the game that was supposed to be put out by Natural 20 Press? Is this the game that was supposed to be out back in March/April?

Is this the game that had a write-up of a Druid with Super-powers?

I hope this game never comes out if this is their approach to doing supers. I don't want DnD with superpowers which is exactly what the game by Natural 20 Press looks like (at least looked like when I saw it back in March/April on their website.

You are selling 4CTF quite short, frankly. It does, indeed, let you do "D&D with superpowers". And Spycraft with super powers. And Deadlands with super powers. And....

It's a plug-in for any D20 game system, not a system/setting in and of itself. In that, it is immediately useful. It allows you to create *and balance* characters in any D20 game which have 'unusual abilities'. My main gripe is that the power list is woefully incomplete, but there is supposed to be a 'big book of powers' coming up soon.

 

[Aaron2]

Personally, I think SAS d20 and M&M are early examples of what will become a strong trend over the next couple of years. By which I mean companies tearing d20 down into its component bits and rearranging and discarding pieces as they see fit.

I think the whole process will be rather invigorating for the industry, leading to more innovation and a more diverse and strengthened d20 market share.

I have to disagree here. If anything, this type of quasi-compatibility will lead to the weakening of the d20 market to the point where the d20 logo is worthless as a tool to attract buyers. I just fail to see how customer confusion can, in any way, invigorate the industry.

Why would anyone choose d20 SAS over TriStat SAS?

Aaron

 

[rayoman]

4CtF has already been released by Natural 20 Press. You'd have to be living under a rock to have missed it.

Then I must be living under a rock. I have not seen this book cross my FLGS shelves. Is it only in pdf format?

We are discussing Silver Age Sentinels here.

Seems more like bashing to me. Forgive me for asking what the 4CtF acronym means.

 

[Samurai]

It stands for Four Color to Fantasy, and yes, it is pdf only. There seems to be somewhat of a market for selling pdf D20 supplements, but IMHO, if it is good enough, it will eventually be released as a book. There are already so many d20 books in the store, I see no need to buy files online and then go to the trouble of printing them myself... but some people seem to like them.. They tend to be cheaper than a book, if nothing else...

 

[WayneLigon]

A few quick replies:
even more tactically defined than D20. (To the point where you basically need to set aside 3-4 hours for a typical fight scene...)

I like SAS so far, and I plan to run it when my cycle in the GM turns comes around.

However, I've played Champions a lot and I'm getting sorta tired of hearing the two particular knocks of 'too much math' and 'combat takes so long'.

I don't know what kind of games y'all have been playing in, but really it sounds like your GM either didn't read the combat rules very well or...well, I just don't know. Combat in Champions takes about as long as a melee in D&D when people are evenly matched, a little longer if someone has good defences. In high leverl d29 combat, you're going to get the same thing a lot of times, and combat stretches accordingly. I don't think we've ever spent more than 30 minutes or so on a major fight scene, certianly no 3-4 hours. We barely play that long, and we typically get in at least two major fights, a minor one or so, and a lot of pure RP.

As for the math, feh. Simple addition, subtraction, division.

[OldFart] You want math, do some 1st ed Traveller ship construction sometime. I had to get a a camculator that would do a X to the Yth power function to even use High Guard. Babies. [/OldFart]

 

[Falanor]

"They tend to be cheaper than a book, if nothing else..." Samurai

They also typically have free updates for the errata...(and instead of obtaining a seperate PDF file full of errata and page numbers its already seamlessly written into the original book)