Savage Species type classes

[Aus_Snow]

What sources are there for racial classes, a la Savage Species?

It's just that I happen to really like the idea, and the mechanics used. I've already got the free downloads from WotC's site, and some stuff in (only) a couple of Dragon mags. Do very many Dragon magazines have these things?

Or are there any actual books (other than SS) that do this? What I'd love to see is as many critters as possible given this treatment.

Also, is it hard to do yourself? If anyone has some advice on doing that, I'd be curious to hear it.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Monte Cook also does something similar but more flexibly in his Arcana Unearthed/Evolved books. The main difference I noted in his version is that you don't have to take all of the "monster levels" before taking class levels, and, IIRC, you don't have to take all or even any of the "monster levels" beyond the base version of the creature.

To explain: In savage species, if you're running a PC with 3 "monster levels," you have to take all 4 before you can take a level in a true PC class. Thus a 4th level PC would be Monster 3/PC 1.

In Monte's AU/E system, a PC with a race that has 3 "monster levels" could opt to take all, some or no additional monster levels before taking a PC class level, and is not required to take ANY monster levels at all. Thus, a 4th level PC could be Monster 3/PC 1, Monster 2/PC 2, Monster 1/PC 3 or PC 4, with the monster levels taken at any time instead of a PC level.

The lesser difference I noted is that he doesn't list any such creatures with more than 3 such levels.

 

[Imret]

The main difference I noted in his version is that you don't have to take all of the "monster levels" before taking class levels, and, IIRC, you don't have to take all or even any of the "monster levels" beyond the base version of the creature. (snip)

Right. I knew there was something about Arcana Evolved that made me love racial classes again. I remembered I got Savage Species and was utterly unimpressed with it, so I put it away and never really picked it up again, considering it an unfortunate learning experience and a book banned at my gaming table. It's been so long since I read it I'd forgotten what I disliked so much about it. Then a quick browse through a friend's AE made me love racial classes and decide to include them in my homebrew despite my dislike of Savage Species.

OTOH, Aus, I don't think there are a lot of these out there, sadly...I could dig through my Dragon collection, but I'd imagine that information is compiled somewhere. It's a big internet.

I'm also working on some for my homebrew, but they're likely not nearly generic enough. Anything you'd particularly like to see rendered? I can't make any assurances, but I can slip a couple into my To-Do list.

 

[Aus_Snow]

Heh. Yeah, I like Arcana Evolved as mucn as the next fan, too. And I do particularly like those racial classes.

But I still really like the Savage Species approach, especially for the particularly powerful (high LA) creatures.

Imret: No idea right now, to be honest. I truly appreciate the thought though - cheers. All I want to do is hoard as many of the things as possible, jsut so they're there as options for PC's, NPC's, whatever. I'm often like that with collections of things (obsessive). I do end up actually using a bewildering array of these things, mind you. So at least it's not all for naught.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Hmm... I loved Savage Species, but have not as yet been allowed to use it. Despite its flaws, its so full of potential, easily houseruled. For example, the implementation of racial levels from SS can easily be changed to the style in AU/E version.

You know what they say- "One man's garbage is another man's gold."

 

[Imret]

Well, fair enough - remembering that it's that mechanic that made me hate SS, I can house-rule the whole thing and consider it money well spent.

 

[Nyaricus]

Aus Snow, dude, why is it that we always have the same ideas? Are we related, or something?

Anyways, IMC, i use the base of Savage Species for all my high LA races - except it is a fusion between the SS Racial Class levels and standard classes.

Her is how it works:

Depending on race, you get your standard Racial abilities (ie, humans get the bonus feat, +4 skill points @ 1st, and +1 at every other level) and you take your first Racial Class level at first level. You must take these before taking a level in any standard class level. You must take them untill you are through will every level in that class. You gain HP, skill points and BAB based on the Monster Manuels ruels for such things.

For example, i have a giant racial class composed of 16 levels. they get d8 Hp, etc all based off their typer (giant) and class abilities based on what suits them (mostly increases in Str, Con and Size). They also start off as being medium size with Powerful Build, adn then they increase to Large with powerful build. I could go on, but i think you get the idea here. They have basic racial traits, and gain class abilities based on what kinda creature they are - and i HR that they get Hp, skills, etc, like any ther character.

Just a few thoughts man, but yeesh, isn't that weird that we think like that

 

[Yair]

I just wanted to add that racial paragon classes (similar to AE's, but for the D&D races) and bloodline levels were also presented in Unearthed Arcana.

 

[Estlor]

A few other WotC products have included SS-style monster progressions (typically the monster books like Libris Mortis and Lords of Madness as well as the Races of X books), but I don't think any d20 company has bought into the idea wholesale. The closest thing to it out there is the idea of the Racial Paragon classes that started in Arcana Unearthed that were later adopted by WotC in Unearthed Arcana.

Of course, the concepts are similar in execution only. SS-style classes break monster abilities across the span of their ECL, enabling you to play an immature version of the monster from 1st level on instead of waiting until a higher level. That's why WotC forces you to take all your monster levels before anything else. Racial Paragon levels are monster levels for races that expand them beyond their normal ECL, extending their racial abilities in exchange for losing a traditional class level. That's why you can take them at any point in time.

Now, if you're a DM that wants to rule that a LA +1 or greater monster could take other classes before finishing their monster class, in effect adventuring and gaining experience in a base class before fully maturing as their race, I don't see why that would be terribly unbalancing as long as 1) you make them take 1st level in their monster class and 2) you make them take all of their monster class levels before they cross over into Epic levels (e.g. if you're playing a monster with 5 monster levels, you can't take more than 15 levels in other classes before you finish out those 5 monster levels so that one of those monster levels doesn't turn out to be character level 21 or higher).

 

[DMH]

The only source I can think of that has SS style racial levels is Maze of the Minotaur from Behemoth3 (and it has at least 2 races stated this way).

Other style of racial levels (like those in UA)- there are several sources if you are interested. Primal Urge's Emerging Forms line all have them as well as Bastion's Wildwood.