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Save my Warlord

Storminator

First Post
Wow. You have built a really passive PC. No wonder you're not having fun. Not only are your powers boring, but your feats are too.

I'd swap Improved resources for Saving Inspiration, and drop all the powers that grant saves. Can you use the PH Heroes powers? If so, drop Opening Shove for Inevitable Wave. Then lose Hammer Formation, maybe for Leaf on the Wind. Then you can charge, get your allies to charge up next to you, then work your way thru the enemy formation. Then pick up Dicey Predicament. You'd at least have a shtick that's active and more interesting to play.

You're also more likely to die, and you'll get a shot a new PC! ;)

PS
 

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keterys

First Post
Sounds like this is a tougher problem... since I can't run char builder on this machine or at work, I've uploaded your character to iplay so I can look at it. Hope you don't mind, but if you do I'll take it down. Meantime, anyone else need a look: http://iplay4e.appspot.com/characte...ge&key=agdpcGxheTRlchELEglDaGFyYWN0ZXIY87ARDA

Are you finding your daily abilities which heal (Stand Tough, Stand the Fallen) are terribly necessary or your encounter abilities that grant saves definitely useful? It sounds like the damage output of your party is a bit low or your DM is potentially making fairly frustrating combats (or both), but I actually tended to find myself swapping my warlord's (12th now) out for more proactive killing abilities and due to killing things faster we finish the combats faster, require less heals, less saves, etc.

Now, I do that as an inspiring warlord, so I have inspired belligerence, hammer and anvil, warlord's strike, war of attrition, staggering spin to do that... I don't remember what are the winning options for resourceful there.

I definitely recommend rolling their attack when you give them one, though. It's a totally easy way to engage you more while still having the same effect.
 

chriton227

Explorer
Warlord is a very specific kind of class to play. You sound like you'd have more fun with a striker. You mentioned you guys don't have a lot of ranged attacks, so I would go for an elven ranger archer or a dragonborn sorcerer.

Funny you should mention that, I do have a L9 Dragonborn cosmic sorcerer in another campaign with the same DM, and he isn't much more interesting. I do a lot of damage, but it is still very vanilla, and due to the length of encounters I still spend better than half of each fight dropping Acid Orb or Blazing Starfall. Going with a striker would also leave us with Second Winds and the paladin's Lay On Hands as our only healing. I've debated switching to a Laser Cleric, at least that way I'd be actively doing something on my turn and we would have plenty of healing.

Cormax adds a tremendous amount to the effectiveness of the party, he is just boring to play. I normally enjoy playing support characters in both tabletop RPGs and in MMOs, but I prefer either a character where I'm actively providing support or where my support is passive and I can use my actions to do something, as opposed to giving up my actions to provide the support. I feel like my entire character could be replaced with two sustainable powers, one sustain minor "one bloodied ally can spend a healing surge" and one sustain standard "one ally within 5 can take a basic melee attack". We are close to Paragon Paths, and things might change then (I was planning on taking Longarm Martial).

Most of the bright lights of enjoyment I've had with my character come up in times of roleplay, not combat. Find a way to make yourself more vocal out of combat, if you can. Maybe pick fights, because that way when you're in the middle of combat, at least you'll have a stake in it since you caused it?

In the end, I think most of the enjoyment out of this class & build will come from building a strong personality & back story and playing it to the hilt.

Cormax is second fiddle at everything out of combat (or worse when it comes to stealth and perception). The paladin is much more skilled at diplomacy and healing, the fighter is more skilled at endurance and athletics. I'm also not much of a role-player, my primary interest in the game is tactics and the char-op (I play as a stress reliever). The GM recently tried to give Cormax both followers and romantic interests, but I rejected both because in my experience, they are both just ways for the GM to screw the players by either setting up betrayals or using them as targets (every NPC ally we have had except one has gone down within one fight because the GM considers all non-PC allies minions, then throws us up against opponents with damage auras, the one survivor was an archer that we told to stay at least 100' behind the party).

Doing things like picking fights is a sure way to get killed in this campaign. We are currently trying to clean out several local gangs from the worst areas of the city we are in, pursuing a Charles Manson analog who has inadvertantly set Freddie Krueger loose, trying to stop a Nazi dwarf plot to use the feywilds as a dumping site for nuclear waste from the real world, reestablishing a global teleport network, and rooting out corruption in the church of Pelor. Every little mistake or misjudgement can have massive consequences, for example a former party member had Freddie Krueger's glove as an implement (cursed at that), when he had a ritual cast to have the glove removed, he made an offhand comment to the entity casting the ritual that Charles Manson was nearby and would probably love the glove, so the entity gave it to Charles, leading to a current situation where an entire populated island (us included) has been drawn into Freddie's nightmare world.

You may be too focused on granting saving throws with your encounter powers. Get the paladin to take up some of the saving throw granting slack by saving his Channel Divinity for divine mettle instead of using it on divine strength, or pick up Saving Inspiration (not sure if you have that already - I'm away from my Builder so I can't check read your file), or swap out knight's move for shake it off.

Then, swap out stirring force for provoke overextension. It's a fun power to use even if you're not a bravura warlord. Hit someone adjacent to and marked by the fighter and he gets to use his Combat Challenge (if he hasn't used it already). Alternatively, hit someone subject to the paladin's divine challenge or divine sanction and he takes extra damage (again, if he hasn't been damaged by it already). The mark reduces the chance that the provoked attack will hit you, and you can further tilt the odds in your favor with magic items such as screaming armor. If the opponent's attack misses, an ally gets a free basic attack against him. Played properly, you can get two or three attacks out of a single power.

I might try that, although Provoke Overextension will probably end up getting Cormax killed (he has the lowest AC and HPs in the party). The Paladin is heavily invested in the multiclass warlock schtick, using Eyebite to make himself invisible to the target of his Divine Challenge, so I don't know how many paladin powers he still has. As I mentioned before, the DM loves to use status effects on the party, and I ended up swapping into the save granting powers after we have a few fights go for almost 20 rounds because we were status-screwed and were either all slowed in difficult terrain or were dazed against highly mobile opponents with reach (and the daze does a nice job of shutting down the rogue's sneak attack too). Knight's Move is more often than not used when the Wizard is dazed and needs to be able to move and sustain a power. I went negative twice in the last session because I was effectively locked down with daze and slow while in multiple auras that caused me to take damage in different ways every turn (taking 20+ damage and being autodazed at the start of every turn without being able to leave the area hurts really quickly).

At the start of the campaign, I was very active in setting up positioning and flanking and getting people into and out of the fight. One former player tended to get himself in over his head constantly, and I spent a lot of time figuring out ways to pull his butt out of the fire. Since he dropped out of the game, our tactics have become much more stable, and the other characters have picked up abilities to either do the same positioning that Cormax used to do or eliminate the need for the positioning (distant advantage). Now it is more a matter of just getting in, giving the fighter an attack, and trying not to make myself a big target. The biggest benefits come from my action point effects, the init bonus, and the extra damage and accuracy of the fighter's basic attacks compared to mine.
 

keterys

First Post
I really think your party would be served by the DM relaxing on status effects... creatures can just deal damage instead, sometimes. Don't know if that's something you can broach, but eh.
 

Engilbrand

First Post
How do combats happen? Is it just, "I use Power X. AC 23. 10 damage." If so, then I'd be bored, too.
In my game, the players preroll. During the combat, they tell me what they hit, I give the go ahead, and combats are narrated.
Example:
Player: AC 25 and 17.
Me: Yep and nope.
Player: I run up to him, scimitars flashing towards his neck and stomach. As I cut through his shirt and see red, he barely manages to get his sword up to keep his head from separating from his body. 16 damage.

If both of your characters feel bland and vanilla, you're looking at the game in a much different way than I am. I refuse to just wave my hand about something. I describe the moves and facial features. I don't follow the flavor that they give with the powers. I give my own flavor. Try it. It might increase your interest.
 

Ceramicwombat

Explorer
Publisher
I'm playing a 12th-level Dragonborn Inspiring Warlord with the Platinum Warlord PP and I had the same problem up until the past few levels. I was going to dump the character but nobody else wanted to play a leader. The way I fixed him was to be a bit more selfish with power and feat selections.

I picked up a waraxe and took the Deadly Axe feat so that I have nice crits to look forward to from my own attacks. I swapped out feats like Improved Inspiration and Saving Inspiration for Toughness and Heavy Shield Proficiency. I tend to use one of my two Inspiring Word uses per encounter on myself. The benefit to my allies from being more resilient in combat more than outweighs the minor benefits provided by improved leader abilities. I dumped powers that grant actions to my allies without also granting me an attack. Hammer and Anvil will let you do your own damage while also making the rest of the party feel like you are being leader-y. If you can pump your AC and take the Harlequin Style feat, Brash Assault is also great fun.

Your DM sounds like our DM: lots of controllers, every fight, until we feel like we are fighting in thick syrup. I gave up on granting saves with my warlord powers. We were being dazed, immobilized, dominated, or stunned pretty much every round, and encounter save-granting powers weren't making a dent. Swap them out for offensive powers that let take down the controllers once you finally get to them.
 

jontherev

First Post
Are you from Impiltur (FR)? If so, there's an awesome feat that lets you roll twice on your intimidate check (sorry, I'm forgetting the name). My 9th level TacLord LOVES using this power, although it is situational (plus you pretty much have to speak the language & sometimes the DM simply won't allow it to work). You can end combats in one turn, or at least make several enemies surrender. But, if you don't have any charisma, this is less effective. We just stopped playing this campaign and I'm playing an avenger now, but I do miss the character.

As mentioned already, using Provoke Overextension, is awesome, especially when combined with Diabolic Stratagem. Instead of playing solitaire, stay tuned into the game and roleplay...and COUNT UP THE DAMAGE your allies are doing on your behalf.

I second the comment on rolling the commander's strike rolls. If you mention your boredom, they shouldn't mind letting you roll them.

Everyone has their own playing preferences, but the warlord was the first class I chose to play in 4E and to me it is one of the best. Try some of the advice you've gotten, and also talk to your DM about your concern...maybe he will let you switch out some powers to try to revamp your character.

Oh yeah...are you using a great spear? If not, you should. It was MADE for the warlord. It extends your reach for using Commander's Strike, for one. Also, there's an amazing power (7th level I think from Dragon) that only works for reach weapons...first you SLIDE your foe to any square adjacent to you, then you pound him, and he grants CA to everyone until he starts his turn not adjacent to you. I think that's right...sorry, I'm away from my books and the CB. Still, it's an awesome power.

Good luck.
 

keterys

First Post
Caging Glaive, level 5 daily - I think it's actually martial power, though it's hard to notice nowadays with the character builder.
 

ilmoin

First Post
Lot's of good suggestions, here. You do need to be a bit more selfish about the character if you want to have more fun. That doesn't mean you have to be less effective.

As others have pointed out, diversifying your powers will make a real difference by making the character more offensively oriented. Definitely pick up the Saving Inspiration feat (swap out Improved Resources or Weapon Focus) and drop Stirring Force. Instead, try Bloody Ending--a really good finishing power for the party. Diabolic Strategem would work nicely for your L!. Also, think about swaping Stand Tough for Rousing Words--not as big a jump in healing for everyone, but something you can use every combat giving you more options more often.

It's not as effective in some ways, but you could move from the Longspear to say a Fullblade. You lose the reach, but it will give you a higher damage output and make you move about more. You'll probably get more use out of Wolfpack Tactics when you don't have the luxury of standing back and controlling so easily. More difficulty for you may make things more fun.
 

The Weregamer

First Post
For me, the key to enjoying playing my taclord in combat has been to play up the Leader aspect in character. When we're in a fight, I am the leader, shouting orders to my comrades independent of any actions I grant through powers. I set out our tactics before and during a fight. They don't always follow orders; their characters aren't mindless automatons, and when they do deviate from the plan it gives us good roleplaying fodder for after the battle. Nevertheless, I feel like Leader is something I do actively, not a passive description on my character sheet that says I must give away all my actions.

I also choose my powers with an eye towards characterization. I don't have Commander's Strike because I as a player find it boring. Instead I have Furious Smash. Is it an inferior power? Most likely, but my character is an angry old sum'bitch, and is often furious when in battle. My group doesn't give a rat's behind about optimization, so no one's complaining. Inspired Belligerance fits the same mold, and our three strikers never complain about a free round of combat advantage.

I guess my advice is not to think of your warlord as a collection of buffs and bonus actions. Rather, consider how the character you're playing would go about being a tactician and battle strategist, and apply that personality to your in-game choices. Personally I think it's tough to make a bad character in 4E, so you likely won't find yourself any less effective, but you'll have more fun. And that's really the point, right?
 

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