Scarred Lands: Ask the Sage [This keeps up, I'm gonna need a bigger notebook!]

[Trickstergod]

It's not a matter of bank roll, it's a matter of profit. White Wolf isn't going to keep sinking money into a line of books that isn't making a profit, no matter how much they have to spare. It means they'll probably let it continue a wee bit longer then a less wealthy company might, but in the end, an unprofitable line will still die.

While I'm only speaking from my own opinion, rather then anything based off of looking into sales numbers of the like, I find that, with the exception of the Termana hardcover, the past year or year and a half or so of releases have been fairly weak or uninteresting. Some rose up to being decent, but decent books with limited utility (which applies to most campaign setting books) likely aren't going to do too well. The Player's Guide series, while not bad, certainly didn't live up to the hype - it seems to me those books were the most advertised Scarred Lands titles out, with authors and developers alike offering teasers or comments just before the books came out yet, when they finally hit the shelves, they didn't live up to the advertising. Other books have had other problems; too close to this book, too much of a change from what the setting was before, 3rd edition based books hitting the shelves just as their mechanics were made obsolete, repeatedly not printing certain things supposed to be in the book and so on.

So, as I see it, the Scarred Lands hadn't just hit a slump, it had a long dry spell of products that I wouldn't think would have done so well - just based off of my personal tastes and opinion, mind you. As I see it, it may have been sucking in money that it wasn't making back for some year or so now, which I think should be ample time to wait for a turn around.

And to John, I don't think a setting has to be regularly supported with new books, but it is nice to know that your favorite setting still will continue on. Planescape hasn't had anything new for a while now, at least that was Planescape specific, yet it's going on along fine. All the same, I and others would like to see more books put out for the setting again.

I do suppose, though, that I'd rather see the Scarred Lands end than for more books to be coming out that have, unfortunately, probably made me like the Scarred Lands less, which is what the last few have done for me.

I do rather wish a definitive 'yea' or 'nay' would be offered up, though, on the state of the setting. Then again, I do believe White Wolf did the exact same thing with Changeling: the Dreaming - just kind of let it die without really saying that it had until well after the fact, with the Time of Judgment.

 

[Telperion]

Since I can't seem to access my account at the new S&SS website I'll just post my last words here.

I recently got Wilderness & Wasteland, and I liked it as a book. As a matter of fact it was the first product that really inspired me into creating a random encounter table all by myself .

That being said I'm starting to yern for new books and something that is 100% compatible with D&D 3.5. It really isn't a big problem using SL stuff with any current products (like the Complete-series from WotC), but in the future I want to keep using stuff that is supported, updated and offers me other support aside from a single messageboard (that may or may not stay up).

It's been fun and I'm going to keep running SL campaigns for a few years until I have enough material on whatever campaign setting I'm going for next. Eberron sounds good .

 

[JoeGKushner]

John,

Just some people's opinion. Me I'm doing pretty well with what I go. However I can sympathize with at least ONE person's opinion regarding the setting. JoeKushner. Why? His comment on "There's not a place for PCs to play in" do make it difficult for introductory play. Me though, I manage to scrape by on sheer wit and design alone. (That and my own hubris. )

But again there is something to a lot of the comments on ways to improve the setting. But rarely it seems they get heard. (At least with the higher ups in WW/S&SS. Not the developers as much as the other guys.)

In any case I don't believe it's dead but we'll see.

Ah, quoted again. It's not that there aren't ANY places to start, but seriously, once you've done Mithril and Mullis Town two or three times, and done the Necromancers as Detectives from Hollowfaust or pleasure seekers of decadence in Shelzar (my three favorite city books for the setting), you're not going to start in most of the other printed books. They make good adventuring locals or good foes and it's important to have sourcebooks on them, but they left way too many great places untapped.

 

[Fevil]

Why does a setting have to be supported with regular new supplements to be something worth playing? Isn't there enough SL stuff out there already, really.

It doesn't.

There is.

I have however, with Dark Sun, already ran a campiagn many years after its died and really can't be bothered to again. I like being spoon fed info on the world through supplements, and no longer have the motivation to make stuff up for SL.

Guess I'm finally too old for this.

 

[Nightfall]

Trick,

I disagree completely with that entire statement. The Player's Guide were far and away superior to most any other player type guide to have come out. Compared with the crud we got with WotC, I'd pay that again for these books. Mongoose's Quint books were decent but not sure they had the zeal the Scarred Lands had. While it is true not all the books lived up to YOUR expectations, I found most at least ranging from decent to good. (Save for Penumbral Pentagon. But that's my gripe not yours.) I don't have the sales numbers...but I'm reasonable sure they did decently up until about Faithful and Forsaken. I admit to not having them but I don't think the dry patch started in 2003. It started in 2004. But that's just me.

Also regarding bank roll versus bleeding money: The fact remains even the most SOLID of d20 companies bleeds a lot. Necromancer, Green Ronin, etc. They are losing money SOMEWHERE. They just have to find ways in cutting back. The difference I see is that S&SS/WW is using the other d20 sources as a means to suppliment some stagnatation in the d20 market at the moment. So they do what all companies do best. Find ways to insert cash and temporarily hold off making something else until the change is there.

That is of course an opinion but with a couple fact based items added.

Joe,

My apologies for misquoting you. But I can understand your complaint in the general terms of "There should be more stuff on Darakenee and Durrover." At least in that sense.

Fevil

We're all getting old. Doesn't mean you're wrong in some respects.

Tel,

Eberron is a nice whole cloth setting. Not my cup of tea overall, but certainly a much worthier setting than say...Hollow World. (Just my opinion folks!)

 

[Trickstergod]

Also regarding bank roll versus bleeding money: The fact remains even the most SOLID of d20 companies bleeds a lot. Necromancer, Green Ronin, etc. They are losing money SOMEWHERE. They just have to find ways in cutting back. The difference I see is that S&SS/WW is using the other d20 sources as a means to suppliment some stagnatation in the d20 market at the moment. So they do what all companies do best. Find ways to insert cash and temporarily hold off making something else until the change is there.

No use arguing opinion, mine being the Player's Guides were decent, yours they being good or great, so I'll just cut to the one thing worth continuing on.

Anyway, what I put in bold is, to a degree, my point. Of course even the most solid d20 companies bleed. That nearly goes without saying. But they don't continue supporting products that are repeatedly coming up at a loss. It's not like Sword and Sorcery Studios is the Scarred Lands; they've also been putting out the new line of Relics and Rituals books, the Advanced Player's Guide, Warcraft, Everquest, etc; so, if the Scarred Lands has been "bleeding" for, say, the past year or so, then getting rid of the line could be one of those ways of cutting back.

I do believe Sword and Sorcery was trying to see how things would work with some change - the Player's Guides being advertised as being useful beyond the Scarred Lands, with the writing attempting to fulfill that, is one sign of that. It could very well be that they took it a step further and just got rid of the Scarred Lands from the equation - like with Relics and Rituals: Excalibur and, soon enough, Olympus. That could very well be the change.

We'll see, though. Though I'd prefer to hear something from someone who should know instead of waiting another year while things just sort of hang in the air.

 

[Cithindril]

Why does a setting have to be supported with regular new supplements to be something worth playing? Isn't there enough SL stuff out there already, really.

I'm not saying I wouldn't want more (or that I wouldn't give Eberron a look or a try). But I don't think it's fair to say that SL isn't adequately supported with so much material already published.

Just to clear up any misunderstandings, I didn't mean to imply that the setting would cease to be fun or viable simply because new releases stopped. I've said it in many other places that I love the SL and will continue to run my two campaigns there regardless of the release schedule. However, a continuing stream of supplements supports a growing fan base and gives the players/DM's options and new frontiers to explore. When the product line is abandoned the die-hard fans aren't really affected, but the community as a whole will begin to atrophy as people search for new options (multiple threads in this post show this already).

One option if SSS drops the setting is for fans to continue to develop new material and share it on one of the existing websites (scarn.mortality.net comes immediately to mind). A great non-D&D example of this is the hard-core Alternity players who have a VERY active fan community (on alternity.net and tequilastarrise.net).

My chief beef with SSS/WW is that they have a responsibility to let their loyal customers know the future of their product lines and they don't. I'll agree that the SL had a good run (I unfortunately came a little late to the party ) and if the sales numbers indicate that it's time to close the store, so be it. I'd just like to know the status.

One other area that caused disappointment was the short run of SL fiction. As I've also mentioned elsewhere, a key element of the longevity of certain other settings (FR and DL specifically) is the wide range of novels based on the world. Dragonlance in particular doesn't appear that popular as a setting but continues to churn out many books. IMHO the existing SL trilogy was quite well-written (setting aside whether you agree with the direction the novels took the SL canon) and I would have liked to have seen more.

At the end of the day, I'm still a fan and am looking to complete my collection. I will continue to play in the world for the forseeable future and hope more products are on the horizon. Barring this, I hope WW eventually experiences an epiphany concerning customer satisfaction and starts doing a better job of keeping the fan base informed.

As always, just my two CP's.

 

[Nightfall]

No use arguing opinion, mine being the Player's Guides were decent, yours they being good or great, so I'll just cut to the one thing worth continuing on.

On that we agree. Well agree to disagree on the opinions themselves. But yes.

Anyway, what I put in bold is, to a degree, my point. Of course even the most solid d20 companies bleed. That nearly goes without saying. But they don't continue supporting products that are repeatedly coming up at a loss. It's not like Sword and Sorcery Studios is the Scarred Lands; they've also been putting out the new line of Relics and Rituals books, the Advanced Player's Guide, Warcraft, Everquest, etc; so, if the Scarred Lands has been "bleeding" for, say, the past year or so, then getting rid of the line could be one of those ways of cutting back.

Mm good point but I do think WW will shoot themselves in the foot doing so. The backlash will be there. I mean a good number of people are still unhappy with way some game companies backhanded a lot of good products. (Dragonstar being one.)

We'll see, though. Though I'd prefer to hear something from someone who should know instead of waiting another year while things just sort of hang in the air.

Again it appears (through my sources) no one DOES know. If they did, they'd say so.

Cith,

Your two coppers are always welcomed here.

 

[Nightfall]

Closing time folks! Thanks for staying!