D&D 5E Schrodinger's Loot


log in or register to remove this ad

ZombieRoboNinja

First Post
To reiterate what others have said: the loot tables are not an attempt to help you build a realistic game-world. In fact, there's probably no such thing as a random loot table that would make any sense from realistic world-building perspective. There isn't a .1% chance that the group of bandits you're fighting has a Robe of Lordly Might tucked away in a chest somewhere; there's basically a ZERO percent chance that they have anything worth more than a couple dozen gold or they'd be retired and living the high life off their incredible wealth.

If you're using random loot tables, it can be assumed you're doing so in order to give the party an interesting reward for their efforts. As DM I would consider using them when the party is finding a dragon hoard or raiding an ancient tomb, but probably not on most mundane encounters. If the party starts to metagame by only taking on difficult challenges to raise their loot payoff, hey, good thing the DM is a human who can just stop giving out loot whenever he feels like it!
 

GX.Sigma

Adventurer
I too miss the idea of monsters having a "treasure" entry. Maybe we're too modern for this, but what if every monster had a "treasure class." So by default, TC 1 would be a few silver pieces, TC 5 would be some magic, TC 20 would be an artifact. But the DM can also redefine it based on how much treasure they want to dole out, so TC 1 in a low-magic low-treasure campaign might be iron weapons, TC 4 might be steel, etc.
 
Last edited:



Libramarian

Adventurer
Yep, I mentioned this effect in another thread.

Have you noticed, also, that the "Magic Item Rarity" table lists levels of character for which the different "rarities" of item are "appropriate"? Does this mean that, if you roll 71+ for the items of a 3rd level party tackling a "tough" encounter, you have to ignore any possible "Rare" items, because those are for characters of level 5 and above (according to the "Magic Item Rarity" table)?

The whole distribution system seems to be poorly thought through, to me.
At first glance I thought they were mutually exclusive methods for placing magic items, but the text doesn't imply that at all. Maybe they are meant to be used together.

I disagree even more with the idea of restricting PCs' access to magic items based on their character level, than I do with the idea of placing magic items based on the relative rather than absolute difficulty of the associated encounter, so I wouldn't like that at all.

My main preference is to have treasure and magic items associated with creatures, not the party level.

Just like in 1e and 2e, each monster static bar will have treasure line with corresponding tables in DM, I would also like the tables to have a scale from low magic to high magic.

Linking magic items for character levels stinks from linking character progression to having magic items and that defeat the entire "bounded accuracy" and "magic items as reward and not entitlement" arguments.

Warder
Yeah, I definitely don't like associating magic items with the party level.

The problem with associating treasure with relative difficulty, rather than absolute difficulty, is a little more subtle.

As the text implies, it allows you to offer basic, localized risk vs. reward choices, at the level of individual, one-time encounters. But it doesn't work if you're trying to build a sandbox area with consistent challenge difficulty and corresponding treasure in different areas, with the players having the freedom to go back and forth between encounter areas at different character levels.

For that you need some sort of objective link between treasure and challenge. So monsters with treasure types. Although I would rather the association be even more general, as dungeon levels, to move away from the idea that treasure has to be wedded to an encounter. (The MMO idea of monsters "dropping" loot).
I dislike associating magic with difficulty. Magic items are made by people for other people. They get lost or thrown away or fall into the hands of creatures when adventurers die or in raids and such.
I agree with your distaste for mob drops, but I like there to be a consistent relationship between the danger of the area and the value of the loot likely to be found, because it's fair but more importantly because it allows the players to make risk vs. reward decisions about which areas they choose to explore. The relationship doesn't have to be entirely based on game factors. It should make sense as well. That's why I say associate both the treasure and the monsters to a dungeon difficulty level, and let the DM place both together in a way that makes sense. Some monsters should be lucrative, relative to their difficulty, and some should be poor, based on story factors.
I guess you could just reverse the way of determining items changing from character level to monster level.
Not a bad idea. Not a bad idea at all. I would prefer a more radical change to the system, but if they're set on determing magic items by relative difficulty+ignoring results above level, this would be a much better way of doing it.
 

Libramarian

Adventurer
To reiterate what others have said: the loot tables are not an attempt to help you build a realistic game-world. In fact, there's probably no such thing as a random loot table that would make any sense from realistic world-building perspective. There isn't a .1% chance that the group of bandits you're fighting has a Robe of Lordly Might tucked away in a chest somewhere; there's basically a ZERO percent chance that they have anything worth more than a couple dozen gold or they'd be retired and living the high life off their incredible wealth.

If you're using random loot tables, it can be assumed you're doing so in order to give the party an interesting reward for their efforts. As DM I would consider using them when the party is finding a dragon hoard or raiding an ancient tomb, but probably not on most mundane encounters. If the party starts to metagame by only taking on difficult challenges to raise their loot payoff, hey, good thing the DM is a human who can just stop giving out loot whenever he feels like it!
The issue is world consistency, not realism per se. I don't mind the players saying "let's take on the biggest, baddest monsters to get the best treasure!" What I mind is players saying "let's delay leveling so we can keep farming goblins at Tough difficulty".
 

howandwhy99

Adventurer
Yeah, the current distribution would encourage TPKs, as adventurers go after more challenging opponents to try and maximize their return.

I don't know. I think any group has known that an ancient dragon hoard probably holds the lost treasures of antiquity, but that didn't make us think we could take him at level one.
 

kerleth

Explorer
I think the whole schrodinger's loot problem is based on a flawed premise. Saying that the same group of guards offers better treasure to a 1st level party than a 5th level one is an illusion, because it's NOT the same group of guards.

If the same characters loot a dungeon at 1st level, then come back at 5th level, should they really be surprised that there is no more awesome treausre there?

If you have two seperate groups in seperate campaigns at seperate levels, than the circumstances surrounding the encounter are obviously different and having different loot makes perfect sense.

If the same group fights similar enemies (trolls, as an example) at different points in the campaign, the creatures having different stuff to take is logical.

Any given group is only going to get one result. The one appropriate for their current condition. It only APPEARS to be a problem from the outside, in the dm's corner.

Published adventures, even sandbox ones, come with level ranges and likely preplaced treasure, so it's a mute point there.

Homemade sandbox adventures seem to offer the biggest potential problem, and the answer is simple. Figure the relative difficulty from the point at which the pc's start the sandbox. If they take great risks early they can get great rewards. If instead they take more average risks and work there way up to being able to get the good stuff, they are only mimicking a system that has been used to great success in a multitude of rpg's, both tabletop and computer.
 

Balesir

Adventurer
I don't know. I think any group has known that an ancient dragon hoard probably holds the lost treasures of antiquity, but that didn't make us think we could take him at level one.
Having the good loot in the dragon's hoard isn't the issue; having that loot in the dragon's hoard until you reach a level where you could take the dragon, when it mysteriously teleports to the big demon's hoard, instead, is the problem.
 

Remove ads

Top