D&D 5E Scimitar of speed and Sword of Dancing RAW question

[ECMO3]

Scimitar of Speed:

"You gain a +2 bonus to attack and damage rolls made with this magic weapon. In addition, you can make one attack with it as a bonus action on each of your turns."

The way I read this is I get to make a bonus action attack with it regardless of what I do with my action. So my Whispers Bard 5/Swashbuckler 5/Fey Wander 4 can make an attack as a bonus action and get 1d6+2+2 Dueling+dex + 3d6 sneak attack + 3d6 Psychic Blades, + 1d4 Dreadful Strikes + 1d4 Favored Foe and then I can use my normal action to cast a spell like Fear or Dissonant Whispers or use a wand or whatever .... or if I miss with the bonus action, I can use my action to attack to still get all that "once a turn" damage.

(Short) Sword of Dancing:

You can use a bonus action to toss this magic sword into the air and speak the command word. When you do so, the sword begins to hover, flies up to 30 feet, and attacks one creature of your choice within 5 feet of it. The sword uses your attack roll and ability score modifier to damage rolls.

I am not as sure about this one. It states "the sword ..... attacks one creature" the abilities all say "when you hit ..." or "when you hit ... with a weapon". Do I get to use Sneak, Psychic Blades, Dreadful Strikes and Favored Foe?

I think it comes down to when I roll the dice and the sword hits something, does that count as me hitting that thing?

Note: this assumes the creature meets the criteria for sneak attack.

 

[MerricB]

Scimitar of Speed:

"You gain a +2 bonus to attack and damage rolls made with this magic weapon. In addition, you can make one attack with it as a bonus action on each of your turns."

The way I read this is I get to make a bonus action attack with it regardless of what I do with my action. So my Whispers Bard 5/Swashbuckler 5/Fey Wander 4 can make an attack as a bonus action and get 1d6+2+2 Dueling+dex + 3d6 sneak attack + 3d6 Psychic Blades, + 1d4 Dreadful Strikes + 1d4 Favored Foe and then I can use my normal action to cast a spell like Fear or Dissonant Whispers or use a wand or whatever .... or if I miss with the bonus action, I can use my action to attack to still get all that "once a turn" damage.

Note that the bonus action attack does not count as you using the "Attack Action", so there can be some abilities that don't work as a result.

I agree with the rogue sneak attack ruling.

(Short) Sword of Dancing:

You can use a bonus action to toss this magic sword into the air and speak the command word. When you do so, the sword begins to hover, flies up to 30 feet, and attacks one creature of your choice within 5 feet of it. The sword uses your attack roll and ability score modifier to damage rolls.

I am not as sure about this one. It states "the sword ..... attacks one creature" the abilities all say "when you hit ..." or "when you hit ... with a weapon". Do I get to use Sneak, Psychic Blades, Dreadful Strikes and Favored Foe?

I think it comes down to when I roll the dice and the sword hits something, does that count as me hitting that thing?

Note: this assumes the creature meets the criteria for sneak attack.

Jeremy Crawford says no.

Cheers,
Merric

 

[Paul Farquhar]

The way I read this is I get to make a bonus action attack with it regardless of what I do with my action.

This is RAW, but I don't think it's RAI. I would not allow it at my table. I would rule you hand to make at least one attack with the scimitar before the bonus action attack was available. Come to think, I would probably rewrite it altogether so it worked like the Haste spell rather than used the bonus action.

Do I get to use Sneak, Psychic Blades, Dreadful Strikes and Favored Foe?

RAW isn't clear, but I would rule no. It's not you attacking, it's the sword - basically a pet. It inherits your ability score modifier for the same reason Tasha summons use it. The sword can benefit from bonuses that would affect pets and allies. I would also rule that it counts as an adjacent ally to set up sneak attack.

 

[Charlaquin]

This is RAW, but I don't think it's RAI.

What makes you think that?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

What makes you think that?

Earlier edition versions, and the logic that the weapon gives you an extra attack because it is super-fast. If you didn’t attack with it it’s ability to move super-fast isn’t going to do anything.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

Earlier edition versions, and the logic that the weapon gives you an extra attack because it is super-fast. If you didn’t attack with it it’s ability to move super-fast isn’t going to do anything.

why not? i'd imagine the sword moving super fast would let you slip in an attack when you otherwise couldn't just as well as it would let you attack more during a flurry.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

why not? i'd imagine the sword moving super fast would let you slip in an attack when you otherwise couldn't just as well as it would let you attack more during a flurry.

Not if you are not using it!

Also, as worded, it clashes with duel wielding, and traditionally this weapon was often duel wielded.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

My rewrite:

Scimitar of Speed​

Weapon (scimitar), very rare (requires attunement)

You gain a +2 bonus to attack and damage rolls made with this magic weapon. In addition, once per round when you make an attack with this weapon you gain an extra action which you can only use to make one additional attack with this weapon.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

Not if you are not using it!

i mean, if you have it out and you're in melee (which would both have to be true to attack with it anyway), you clearly are.

Also, as worded, it clashes with duel wielding, and traditionally this weapon was often duel wielded.

ok, but you'd need to change the action type to remedy that (which i know you've also advocated for), not when you can trigger the action.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

i mean, if you have it out and you're in melee (which would both have to be true to attack with it anyway), you clearly are.

If you hold it in your hand without swinging it, it doesn't matter how fast it can move, it's no help.