D&D 5E Scimitar of speed and Sword of Dancing RAW question

[mellored]

Scimitar of Speed:

"You gain a +2 bonus to attack and damage rolls made with this magic weapon. In addition, you can make one attack with it as a bonus action on each of your turns."

The way I read this is I get to make a bonus action attack with it regardless of what I do with my action

yes.

So my Whispers Bard 5/Swashbuckler 5/Fey Wander 4 can make an attack as a bonus action and get 1d6+2+2 Dueling+dex + 3d6 sneak attack + 3d6 Psychic Blades, + 1d4 Dreadful Strikes + 1d4 Favored Foe and then I can use my normal action to cast a spell like Fear or Dissonant Whispers or use a wand or whatever

Yes.

.... or if I miss with the bonus action, I can use my action to attack to still get all that "once a turn" damage.

Yes.

(Short) Sword of Dancing:

You can use a bonus action to toss this magic sword into the air and speak the command word. When you do so, the sword begins to hover, flies up to 30 feet, and attacks one creature of your choice within 5 feet of it. The sword uses your attack roll and ability score modifier to damage rolls.

I am not as sure about this one. It states "the sword ..... attacks one creature" the abilities all say "when you hit ..." or "when you hit ... with a weapon". Do I get to use Sneak, Psychic Blades, Dreadful Strikes and Favored Foe?

No.

I think it comes down to when I roll the dice and the sword hits something, does that count as me hitting that thing?

No.

Note: this assumes the creature meets the criteria for sneak attack.

Also spending dice for the Psychic Blade.

Also, as worded, it clashes with duel wielding, and traditionally this weapon was often duel wielded.

They changed dual wielding in the remake so scimitar, daggers, light hammers, and sickles can two weapon fight without a bonus action.

So you can attack with your main hand, TWF attack with the scimitar, and bonus attack with that scimitar of speed.

That bonus action would still clash with, Cunning Action, Bardic Inspiration, healing word, hunters mark, or...

 

[aco175]

I thought it uses your bonus action to get an additional attack, similar to two-weapon fighting. I figured it would say free action if they wanted you to get a free attack.

 

[DEFCON 1]

I personally agree with @Paul Farquhar that attacking with the scimitar ONLY with the Bonus action is probably not what was intended. RAW you could make the case sure, but "as intended" I agree that there's nothing "speedy" about using a weapon one time in a round with one of the actions you have when you did something else with the other action (Bonus or regular). After all... a cleric can attack with their mace with their Action and then cast Healing Word with their Bonus action... does that make their mace attack "speedy"? I wouldn't say so.

Now granted... this is all just getting hung up on the fluffy item name "of Speed" as to determining whether a rule was intended or not. But there are other places in the game where there are similar mechanics but are not fluffed in the same "speedy" way. For instance... the War cleric gets to attack with their main hand weapon with their Action and their Bonus action when using its War Priest feature.. and the second attack isn't fluffed as being "speedy", it's just part of being a War Priest. So the "of Speed" of the scimitar doesn't mean you have to necessarily interpret the intention of the magic item property that way just because the fluff seems to indicate it. It certainly makes sense if you do, but there are other places where similar things happen so you don't have to.

Personally, I myself would not allow it-- I'd tell the player that even though the Scimitar of Speed isn't written like the War Priest feature (which specifically says that when you make the Attack action you can make a weapon attack as a Bonus action as well)... that's how I would interpret it. You only get the Bonus action attack if you use your Action to also attack with the scimitar. But YMMV.

 

[Charlaquin]

I thought it uses your bonus action to get an additional attack, similar to two-weapon fighting. I figured it would say free action if they wanted you to get a free attack.

“Free action” isn’t a thing in the 5e ruleset. It could be “without using an action,” but I very much doubt that’s the intent. No, I think it’s clear that it’s supposed to work the way it says: it costs a bonus action, and isn’t dependent on what you do with your action.

 

[Charlaquin]

I personally agree with @Paul Farquhar that attacking with the scimitar ONLY with the Bonus action is probably not what was intended. RAW you could make the case sure, but "as intended" I agree that there's nothing "speedy" about using a weapon one time in a round with one of the actions you have when you did something else with the other action (Bonus or regular). After all... a cleric can attack with their mace with their Action and then cast Healing Word with their Bonus action... does that make their mace attack "speedy"? I wouldn't say so.

No, but it does make casting Healing Word speedy. Indeed, spells that can be cast as a bonus action are explicitly described as “fast” in the rules for spellcasting.

 

[DEFCON 1]

No, but it does make casting Healing Word speedy. Indeed, spells that can be cast as a bonus action are explicitly described as “fast” in the rules for spellcasting.

Very true. Good point.

 

[James Gasik]

Being able to attack with a bonus action instead of a full action sure sounds like it's faster to me.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Being able to attack with a bonus action instead of a full action sure sounds like it's faster to me.

Not necessarily, it depends on how one looks at it. You can't say a Bonus action is definitively a "faster" action than a standard Action, because after all... if a Bonus action was faster by definition, a Rogue that used their Bonus action to Dash should move further than a Rogue that used its Action to Dash. If the Bonus action was faster, you would move further in the same amount of time. But the rogue moves 30' regardless of which action they use. So in terms of speed, one can say that neither action (the regular or the Bonus) is any faster than the other. Instead, it's more like the character themself can act faster by doing two things at once in the same 6 second period, but both activities could take the same amount of time to complete as they would if they only did one.

So the argument could go both ways, depending on how one chooses to look at it.

 

[mellored]

Personally, I myself would not allow it-- I'd tell the player that even though the Scimitar of Speed isn't written like the War Priest feature (which specifically says that when you make the Attack action you can make a weapon attack as a Bonus action as well)... that's how I would interpret it. You only get the Bonus action attack if you use your Action to also attack with the scimitar. But YMMV.

In the playtest, both the Warpriest and the Monk dropped the requirements of making an attack action.

They are both intentionally only bonus actions.

 

[billd91]

Being able to attack with a bonus action instead of a full action sure sounds like it's faster to me.

I agree, you really can't deny that it is faster.

It is a bit quirky in the sense that it offers a benefit very similar to two-weapon fighting - an additional attack as a bonus action. But it does so by 1) obviating the need to make an attack action as the primary action, and 2) allowing that extra action to be taken even if the scimitar is the primary (or only) weapon being wielded. Both of these are fairly nice benefits.