Scion of Arkhosia and Dragon Breath feats

[cmbarona]

I'm already guessing the answer is no, but I figured I'd ask the rules gurus here...

The Scion of Arkhosia Paragon Path has two powers that are variations of the Dragon Breath racial feature. Do feats, such as Empowered Dragon Breath, enhance those powers as well?

 

[Alisair Longreach]

The Enlarged Dragon Breath feat also increases the blast size of Clinging Breath power as they both augment the Dragon Breath power.

The Empowered Dragon Breath feat also increases the damage dice of the Dragon's Wrath and Clinging Breath powers to d10s.

It might be powergaming cheese but it is legal cheese.

 

[Majushi]

I'd argue that they don't apply.

Dragon's Wrath and Clinging Breath both say;

"This power uses the same ability as your dragon breath racial power, and it uses the same damage type you initially chose for that power."

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I'd take this to mean that they look to your choices made for Dragon Breath (attack ability chosen and damage type) but that's it...

If it said; "Make an attack with your dragon breath, but add X" I would have agreed.

But as it is written the two Scion powers are not affected by the Dragonbreath feats.

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[MatthewJHanson]

I agree with Majushi. Clinging Breath and Dragon's Wrath don't augment your breath, their seperate powers, so Empower Breath etc. don't apply.

 

[Doctor Proctor]

I agree with Majushi. Clinging Breath and Dragon's Wrath don't augment your breath, their seperate powers, so Empower Breath etc. don't apply.

Yep, I would agree with that too. I would like it if they applied, but they don't. If you're looking for a Paragon Path that will get you more mileage out of your feats, then you might want to check out the Inner Dragon Fighter PP in Martial Power (if you're a Fighter that is). It gives you a second use of your Dragon Breath as a free action when you spend an Action Point while bloodied IIRC.

 

[doggywoggy]

I'd honestly like to know whether anyone has taken this PP given all the limitations. (e.g. can't do anything whilst "flying"). What's the point of using this. Better off just getting some flying boots and using the dragonborn breath feats. I have Hurl Breath which is great for targetting minions strategically, but once I get to lvl 11 I can't see it changing the outcome of a battle much. What's the point of getting past people's defenses better (change breath type), if the damage is so limited and doesn't even stack with Empowered Breath?

This PP screams for a re-working and house rules. Who wants to play a character with wings who can't really fly? Seems weak and ultimately disappointing to me.

 

[Klaus]

I have my own rules on the matter, all feat-based, which I suggested to Dragon magazine but they didn't pick it up. The basic of it all is:

Dragon Wings [Dragonborn]
Prerequisite: dragonborn, Str 15, trained in Athletics
Benefit: You grow draconic wings. Any jumps you make are treated as if you had a running start, and you calculate the distance you jump with high jumps in squares, just like long jumps. The distance you jump can exceed your speed.
You can use an Athletics check to reduce falling damage instead of Acrobatics.

 

[doggywoggy]

That's very cool, both mechanics-wise and flavour-wise. I might ask (beg) my DM to let me take it. That said, there should be a follow-up feat that allows you to get even bigger wings (maybe str 19 minimum) and allows you flight (maybe a rest once every few rounds, depending on your con bonus, say).

I was thinking of making an epic-level Dragonborn class, called Dragon Re-born. Basically it's a ritual that turns you into an actual dragon, with all the pluses and minuses that entails. You start off small and get larger, with the ability to shape-shift back into your pre-cocoon dragonborn shape for when you need it. Dragons should have that magical ability, anyway. (I admit, I haven't read the 4e dragons yet, being that I like to have surprises and I'm just a player)

 

[Klaus]

That's very cool, both mechanics-wise and flavour-wise. I might ask (beg) my DM to let me take it. That said, there should be a follow-up feat that allows you to get even bigger wings (maybe str 19 minimum) and allows you flight (maybe a rest once every few rounds, depending on your con bonus, say).

I was thinking of making an epic-level Dragonborn class, called Dragon Re-born. Basically it's a ritual that turns you into an actual dragon, with all the pluses and minuses that entails. You start off small and get larger, with the ability to shape-shift back into your pre-cocoon dragonborn shape for when you need it. Dragons should have that magical ability, anyway. (I admit, I haven't read the 4e dragons yet, being that I like to have surprises and I'm just a player)

Oh, there certainly were follow-up feats. Here are a couple:

Dragon Pounce [Dragonborn]
Prerequisite: dragonborn, Dragon Wings
Benefit: If you make a jump or fly as part of a charging bull rush, and you succeed on your bull rush attempt, you may knock the target prone instead of pushing it 1 square.

Paragon feat:

Dragon Flight [Dragonborn]
Prerequsitie: dragonborn, Str 17, Con 17, Dragon Wings
Benefit: You can swap a 16th-level utility power you know for the Dragon Flight power.

Dragon Flight Feat Power
Daily
Move Action Personal
Effect: You gain a fly (clumsy) speed equal to your speed + 2 until the end of the encounter.

And here's a snippet of the flavour text:

Squires among the Winged Knights were capable of great leaps, making them very mobile in the battlefield, and the senior officers were capable of tackling flying foes and bringing them crashing to the ground. These capabilities marked the Winged Knights as a form of mobile infantry, as opposed to the full aerial force of true dragons, and some trace the origin of the word “dragoon” to the order. Winged Knights riding wyverns and leaping off to fight as separate combatants weren’t unheard of. And the ability of the highest Knights to cover great distances on the wing made the Winged Knights the most effective emergency response force in the empire of Arkhosia.

 

[doggywoggy]

hmm, I like. More! pls

Claus you are a god-send. now, to decide what feats I would have to give up to achieve this.

Although, honestly spending two feats to be able to fly for 5 min 1/day is kinda rough, for Paragon level. Don't get me wrong, it's good, but still limiting. I'd much rather be able to fly at will at my normal speed, and say with light armor or with some type of slow-down depending on weight carried (for realism). Comparing these to Scion of Arkhosia with 12 overland by lvl 16 and the cost of perhaps a better paragon path, is still quite good. I think it would be even better to have a Heroic Wings (overland-flight at normal speed), and Paragon Wings (actual flight, at Paragon), with speed + encumbrance + endurance limitations. Suddenly, the Endurance skill seems much better and actually useful to take. Hovering could be a DC 20 Endurance check, a round after which you fall unless you can land in time. If I need to fly farther/longer I can banish my summoned plate, making it seem realistic that it would be quite tough to lift yourself up and sustain flight while carrying such a heavy load. Then again, does anyone make a Plate type that is super light? maybe in AV2? Like as an at-will power with a penalty to AC when in light-mode.