Scripting NPC actions, is this gone? Do you do it? Share how

[OchreJelly]

I shall research this. Is there a charm ritual that can be subtley and quickly cast upon an individual that doesn't involve the victim having to be bludgeoned down to 0 hp to work?

You probably won't find such a ritual, but that's a feature, not a bug. What it sounds like you're arguing for is basically a save-or-die effect, which the 4E designers made great efforts to avoid.

That said, is such subtle charm magic flavorful and iconic? Absolutely. Does it have a place in the game? Maybe, but it doesn't have a good fit in the current system.

Some people have found creative use of encounter and utility powers outside of combat. For example, it's possible your DM could allow you to make creative use of the bard's "fast friends" power outside of combat for the spying scenario, but that's really a stretch on the power's utility.

It's better if the solutions could be worked into a skill challenge to avoid the SOD problem. Maybe work up a challenge where the RP encounter starts with a charm like "fast friends" to disorientate the npc, then allow for bluff checks to continue the diversion, while arcana checks are used to "up the wammy" of the charm effect until the NPC becomes your trusted friend.

It has the feel of subtly and trickery you want and if the challenge fails, the NPC is wise to the trick!

 

[Pseudopsyche]

Now we're talking about magic. While it's true that 4E has done away with the classic schools, many of the popular spells survive in a different form. In the main, the durations have been seriously cut. I think only mind-flayers have the ability to long-term dominate (I could be wrong). The 'scripting' is all done with very specific mechanics. i.e. charmed effect that causes target to slide and attack creature chosen by caster. This takes a lot of the guesswork out of what an npc would and would not do, because mechanically they have to.

Offhand, the Aboleth Overseer has an "Enslave" attack that targets dominated creatures and prepares them for a ritual that turns them into permanent thralls. Other long-term charms include the Charming Kiss of the Succubus, which forces the victim to shield the Succubus from attacks. It is true that these effects leave it up to the DM and players to decide how to roleplay them outside of combat encounters.

 

[kitsune9]

As I understood D&D back in the 90's, NPCs were not allowed to act just any way the DM wanted. They had to follow certain rules. Mainly acting according to their alignment and based off the attitude adjustment tables similar to the ones in 3.X. But unless I'm missing something 4E has dropped everything but alignment. Can anyone tell me why?

For example, as far as I can tell 4E has no Enchantment School spells. Those spells scripted a character actions, which makes makes me think the 4E design philosophy believes something is wrong with having characters forced to perform actions their owner's did not agree to. Or a belief that leads to a similar effect in design and play.

For my own games we still play that a dominated character is taken control over by the Enchanter's player. And charmed characters suffer the same fate whenever the PC's player doesn't like a declared action by the enchanted character. Or when the enchanter is an NPC, the DM chooses based as they wish, but as long as it is in line with the NPC's scripting. Of course charmed characters get a saving throw every time an Enchanter attempts to take control of them. Failure means the Enchanter's player gains control for that round or turn or whatever. Sort of like a weak, situation specific version of Dominate, which is how I view Charm spells.

My scripted NPCs are mostly lightly scripted, basically whatever the module says and the two character motivations I give in the first paragraph. But I've known several DMs over the years who like to make all kinds of extra personality rules for their NPCs to follow. I've seen players do things like this too like rolling to see if they had to have another drink because they wanted to play an alcoholic. But these few times I believe were self enforced by the player, not something the DM was using as part of the system. In fact, I don't think I have ever seen personality rules forced on player characters. Maybe someone here has? Or knows why? Mainly, "What kind of scripting do you guys use for NPCs?"

These days, I'm writing my own adventures so the NPC's tend to end up however I write them up, but when I ran modules, I would tend to pretty much follow whatever the way the NPC was described. When I ran RPGA mods, I ran NPCs exactly to the letter.

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

This also has the effect of such magic being limited to combat use which can get boring quick. Charming someone for 6 seconds to preform very limited or prescribed functions turns what was once flavorful magic into just another form of attack.

I shall research this. Is there a charm ritual that can be subtley and quickly cast upon an individual that doesn't involve the victim having to be bludgeoned down to 0 hp to work?

I've addressed the use of powers outside of combat with good reception around here before: link

This example kind of proves my point that such magic is limited to combat use. Thralls are a great staple of evil masterminds but what about more subtle uses of charms? Suppose a PC wanted to charm a member of a nobles court and use him/her to gather information about the noble's illicit activities.

As for charming a member of a noble's court, I would turn that into a complex skill challenge that would stretch over a longer period of time. Powers that affect appropriate skills could be used to influence the outcome. And using powers the way I suggest in the link above could also influence the outcome. This way getting the information becomes a full encounter of its own instead of a task unlocked by the casting of a single spell.

 

[Barastrondo]

It would seem to me that the omission of the "use charm spells to worm your way into the king's court" tactic has been largely motivated by the desire to emphasize the "use skills to worm your way into the king's court" tactic, probably because it engages more people at the table. So you see more utilities like the warlock's Beguiling Tongue power, which grant a not-at-all-inconsiderable +5 to the next Bluff, Diplomacy or Intimidate check. I doubt I can adequately express just how much impact that has had on one of the games I run with a feylock in the party. I like the approach myself; I'm fond of the idea of sending in the rogue with the silver tongue instead of the wizard who memorized a charm spell lately. It's more in keeping with the themes I tend to play around when when I mess with D&D.

The "scripted NPC actions" is something I never did myself, outside of writing stuff for publication now and again. Trying to prepare for players actions is a variable level of futility, so I just tend to worry about what matters to the NPC and how much it matters. With the new streamlined statblocks of 4e, it becomes even easier to keep their various actions in mind.

 

[Lizard]

There is a Bard ritual which comes close to the old Charm Person, Call Of Friendship, which takes 10 minutes and can last anywhere from an hour to a day, depending on your Diplomacy roll. (At eleventh level, I have a +16 Diplomacy, so on average that would be 26, which lasts an hour and will let him spend up to 25 gp helping me.)

 

[LostSoul]

Hmm...

Let's say that you are trying to convince the King that a horde of orcs is marching on his castle. For whatever reason.

"Oh really? My spies haven't turned up any evidence of such things."
"Look into my crystal ball, my liege. You will see the truth!"

The DM says, "You don't have a crystal ball."
"Nope, but I do have a big, round, clear gem. It was in the last batch of treasure we found."
"So?"
"So my Warlock inflicts a waking nightmare upon the king so that he can no longer tell what is real and what exists only in his mind. Under its influence he will stagger about, trying to avoid the horde of orcs that come charging out of the gem!"
"What?"
"Basically I want to cast Curse of the Dark Dream on him, make the nightmare he sees an army of orcs coming out of the 'crystal ball' I have."

The DM considers this. "Can you create the nightmare vision yourself? My thinking is that it just shows whatever the target is most afraid of."
"I guess it could go either way..."
"I'll make a ruling right now: the target sees whatever he's most afraid of, you don't choose it. Your spell won't work - unless you can make the King terrified of that army of orcs."
"Hmm... I don't think I have a spell that does that. What if I cast Mire the Mind? I assail his mind with unreal images until he can see nothing else."
"Yeah, that sounds like it would work. Make the roll."

 

[Bumbles]

name
job
health

do you need more scripting?

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

Hmm...

Let's say that you are trying to convince the King that a horde of orcs is marching on his castle. For whatever reason.

I would SO give you XP right now but I must spread them about.

THIS is the kind of creative use of powers I'm talking about.