Scroll or Wand creation and collaboration

[Jotun]

There are so many more knowledgeable people on these boards, I have to consult with their wisdom.

The wizard's got the scribe scroll feat. The cleric's got the bless spell. Where in the DMG does it state that they can not make a bless scroll?

I have an easier time understanding the concept of the collaboration rules when the item is something that doesn't exactly mimic the effects of the preequisite spell, but I just want to make sure that per DMG rules the above example is all good and well.

Thanks for the help in advance.

 

[hong]

There are so many more knowledgeable people on these boards, I have to consult with their wisdom.

The wizard's got the scribe scroll feat. The cleric's got the bless spell. Where in the DMG does it state that they can not make a bless scroll?

There's no explicit prohibition on multiple characters supplying the prereqs for making scrolls (or potions). As far as the rules are concerned, scrolls (and potions) are just like any other magic item, it's just that the concept of one guy writing down what another guy knows somehow doesn't click with a lot of people.

 

[AGGEMAM]

PHB, page 84, Scribe Scroll feat
Benefit: You can create a scroll of any spell that YOU know.

Emphasis added.

Edit: Ok, I know you asked for a DMG quote but I think this will suffice.

 

[hong]

Emphasis added.

And as has been noted before, the same language applies for all the item creation feats.

Craft Rod: "You can create any rod whose prerequisites you meet."
Craft Staff: "You can create any staff whose prerequisites you meet."
Craft Wand: "You can create a wand of any spell... you know."
Craft Wondrous Item: "You can create any miscellaneous magic item whose prerequisites you meet."
etc.

The language in the feat descriptions notwithstanding, the DMG also explicitly allows multiple creators to supply the prereqs for creating items. You have a choice: either you allow this sort of collaboration, and assume the requirements in the feat descriptions apply to the overall collaborative process; or you can take the strict route of not allowing any collaboration whatsoever. Either way, you should be consistent. There's nothing in the rules that suggests scrolls should be treated any differently to other items in this regard, so if you would allow collaborative weapon creation, say, you should also allow it for scrolls.

 

[Magus_Jerel]

Exact words - first printing PHB

Scribe scroll (item creation)
You can create scrolls, from which you or another spellcaster can cast the scribed spells. See the DMG for rules on scrolls

nothing in there bout knowing the spell per se...

Aggeman -
I don't have the link to the SRD bookmarked - and IIRC, they haven't changed the wording on those feats in that way. I would very much like to see it if they do.

Hong is correct - there is no explicit prohibition on collaboration to fill prereqs - but you MUST declare which individual is the "creator" for the purposes of the xp loss involved.

 

[Crothian]

So, it comes down to co operation and limits. By allowing the co operation you need fewer people with the item creation feats. They can more easily make items as all they need to do is find someone with the ability to help them create the object.

Or if you restrict it so that the person with the feat needs to know the spell you make itemsa harder to make in general.

I'm not too sure which way I'd go on this issue. On the one hand I like to have PC co operate and allowing them to help each other make magic items will get co operation. It will also allow them to be more creative as they can access more spells.

On the other hand, I like to limit the availibility of magic. Allowing co operation and easier ability to make items seems to go against that.

 

[Magus_Jerel]

I would allow this cooperation to occur as the rules state for several reasons.

First, the restrictive method - can only work to the disadvantage of the PC's. You, as the GM, can create NPC's and magic items without the immense effort of having to "earn" them. The PC's have to strive to get each and every one.

Also, the idea of having a magic item that requires both high level cleric and wizard spells imparticular is intriguing.

Limiting "the availability of magic" by restricting spellcasters is bad form. It is far better to make spellcasters rare - few and far between. Not all cities have an archmage who is a local resident. Not all temples have a high priest who can work tremendous magic.

It is one matter to have arcane locks and fireballs around - it is quite another to have a staff of power with a "for sale" sign sitting on the shelf of the local magic shop.

A fantasy game without magic at all - becomes little more than a sophisticated wargame. With too much magic, it becomes so unrealistic as to lose touch with all semblance of logic and reality. The farmer cannot go out and farm His field without worrying about the local dragon coming out and gobbling him up for a snack.

You have just found yourself asking a continual question of the Game Master of a Dungeons and Dragons game - just how much magic do I and my players want around in the game?

 

[AGGEMAM]

Exact words - first printing PHB

Scribe scroll (item creation)
You can create scrolls, from which you or another spellcaster can cast the scribed spells. See the DMG for rules on scrolls

nothing in there bout knowing the spell per se...

Aggeman -
I don't have the link to the SRD bookmarked - and IIRC, they haven't changed the wording on those feats in that way. I would very much like to see it if they do.

Hong is correct - there is no explicit prohibition on collaboration to fill prereqs - but you MUST declare which individual is the "creator" for the purposes of the xp loss involved.

I did quote the 1st Printing PHB word for word (actually I copy-pasted it of my OCR scan of that). But since I have both 1st and 2nd Printing PHB I went back and checked. And, surprise, your quote is from the 2nd Printing PHB (or from 1st Print Revision 2 which is the one with some Sage answer regarding eg AoOs in the back).

Going by that, yes, you can co-operate to make any magical item. However mixing divine and arcane spellcaster when scribing scroll just doesn't tick with me.

 

[Magus_Jerel]

First Print - Revision 2 -
I got My copy just as the thing was being cut off the press shortly after Gen Con -

Was Working For Amazon.com at the time - and got to pull My order myself.

 

[StealthyMark]

As far as I understood the DMG, the following applies:
- One character must have the appropriate item creation feat. This charakter can do nothing else while working.
- This character is considered the creator. He sets the caster level of the item (within his boundaries). He pays the XP cost.
- Prerequisite spells can be supplied by other characters or magic items. You must spend one charge/scroll/use of all prerequisite spells per day.
- The creator must met all special prerequisites, e.g. race, alignment, skill ranks, special abilities. For example, only an elf with the Craft Wondrous Item feat can create Boots of Elvenkind.

Conclusion: A wizard10 can create a Wand of Cure Moderate Wounds (10th-level caster) (market price: 15,000 gp) with a little help from his cleric3 or bard4 buddy.