Seastars with high AC - 5e idea?

[Cleon]

Arms. Melee Weapon Attack: +5 to hit, reach 10 ft. [?], one target. Hit: 10 (2d4 + 5) [?] bludgeoning damage, and the target is grappled (escape DC 17). Until this grapple ends, the creature is restrained, and the sea star can't grapple another target.

Engulf #1. Melee Weapon Attack: +5 to hit but target must be restrained, with Advantage against creatures with rigid shells (giant crabs and insects, humanoids in plate or banded armor, etc.), reach 5 ft., one restrained target. Hit: 10 (2d4 + 5) bludgeoning damage [?] plus 7 (2d6) acid damage [?]. Once an Engulf hits, if the sea star misses with a subsequent Engulf attack it still does 7 (2d6) acid damage [?] to the target as long as the target is restrained.

Maybe increase the acid damage and lower the bludgeoning damage?

I'm wondering whether the arms might do the same base dice as a Brittle Star since it's basically similar, just with a higher Strength bonus.

Arms #2. Melee Weapon Attack: +5 to hit, reach 10 ft. [?], one target. Hit: 7 (1d4 + 5) [?] bludgeoning damage, and the target is grappled (escape DC 17). Until this grapple ends, the creature is restrained, and the sea star can't grapple another target.​

​

Engulf #3. Melee Weapon Attack: +5 to hit but target must be restrained, with Advantage against creatures with rigid shells (giant crabs and insects, humanoids in plate or banded armor, etc.), reach 5 ft., one restrained target. Hit: 7 (1d4 + 5) bludgeoning damage [?] plus 10 (3d6) acid damage [?]. Once an Engulf hits, if the sea star misses with a subsequent Engulf attack it still does 7 (2d6) acid damage [?] to the target as long as the target is restrained.​

That's still Challenge 1 according to the CR calculator.

Hmm… I still prefer the Arms #1 & Engulf #1. A sea star is crushing / prying at its prey with its whole body and arms, it's not just grabbing it with one arm like our brittle star does. It presumably usually Multiattacks the same target with two arms (2d4+4) and a bite, so its arms do similar damage to a sea star with a single 2d4+5 Arms attack.

Playing around with the CR calculator, it appears to be quite close to the top of CR 1. It only takes a single point of more damage to bump it into CR 2.

Maybe we should make it Challenge 2 with a bit higher damage and the normal base 10 on its to hit?

Arms #3. Melee Weapon Attack: +7 to hit, reach 10 ft. [?], one target. Hit: 10 (2d4 + 5) [?] bludgeoning damage, and the target is grappled (escape DC 17). Until this grapple ends, the creature is restrained, and the sea star can't grapple another target.​

​

Engulf #4. Melee Weapon Attack: +7 to hit but target must be restrained, with Advantage against creatures with rigid shells (giant crabs and insects, humanoids in plate or banded armor, etc.), reach 5 ft., one restrained target. Hit: 10 (2d4 + 5) bludgeoning damage [?] plus 10 (3d6) acid damage [?]. Once an Engulf hits, if the sea star misses with a subsequent Engulf attack it still does 10 (3d6) acid damage [?] to the target as long as the target is restrained.​

Alternatively, we could keep the previous Arms #1 & Engulf #1 and make it Challenge 2 by increasing the Hit Dice. A Sea Star is a good deal more robust than a Brittle Star after all, which is, well, brittle.

We could give it, say Hit Points 59 (7d10 + 21) or 68 (8d10 + 24) or increase the CON to 18 (+4) for Hit Points 57 (6d10 + 28) or 66 (7d10 + 28) and it comes out CR 2.

What do you reckon.

 

[Cleon]

Ok so I like Engulf #1 too. So CR 1 with damages outlined above?

I'll update the Giant Sea Star with the above, but see the previous post for some bumping it up to Challenge 2 musings.

EDIT: I tweaked the wording of the last sentence of Engulf from "if the sea star misses with a subsequent Engulf attack it still does 7 (2d6) acid damage to the target as long as the target is restrained" to "if the sea star misses the same target with a subsequent Engulf attack it still does 7 (2d6) acid damage provided the target is still restrained" to make the phrasing a bit neater.

 

[Casimir Liber]

Ok bump the hp for CR 2...to mixe it up a bit - CON to 18 (+4) for Hit Points 66 (7d10 + 28)

 

[Cleon]

Ok bump the hp for CR 2...to mixe it up a bit - CON to 18 (+4) for Hit Points 66 (7d10 + 28)

Fine by me.

Updating the Giant Sea Star.

So are there any additions or changes to the remaining Red Text you'd like?

I'm happy to leave it as is with the same traits as the Giant Brittle Star.

If that's alright by you we just need to write a Description for it.

 

[Casimir Liber]

I think the red bits are fine - nothing strikes me as needing changing. So....wanna mock up a descrption then?

 

[Cleon]

I think the red bits are fine - nothing strikes me as needing changing.

Will dered it then.

So....wanna mock up a descrption then?

Sure. It'll have to wait 'til later since I'm spending the afternoon out.

 

[Cleon]

Will dered it then.

dereddened the Giant Sea Star.

For the Description, here's a start:

Sea stars, also known as starfish or asteroids, are a familiar sight on beaches. Star shaped marine animals covered in heavy bony armor, they move around very slowly on hundreds of boneless tubular pseudolegs on the underside of their body and five arms. Sea stars are predators and scavengers, mainly eating bivalves such as clams plus whatever carrion they come across. A giant sea star is just an enormous version of this animal, large enough to swallow most humanoids.​

I was thinking of adding the following:

VARIANT: CRYPTIC SEA STAR
Many giant sea stars are colored and patterned to match the sea floor they live on to make it easier to sneak up to prey and avoid the attention of creatures that hunt them. Some cryptic stars also have aquatic plants or even animals such as sea anemones growing on them to help them blend into their background.
 A cryptic brittle star has the following trait.

 Cryptic Coloration. The giant sea star has advantage on Dexterity (Stealth) checks when in its native environment.​

Upon reflection I'd rather add Cryptic Coloration to the Traits of the standard giant sea star and explain it in the Description with:

Cryptic Starfish. Most giant sea stars are colored and patterned to match the sea floor they live on, represented by the Cryptic Coloration trait. This makes it easier to sneak up to prey and avoid the attention of creatures that hunt them. Some cryptic sea stars also have aquatic plants or even animals such as sea anemones growing on them to help them blend into their background. There are giant sea stars that lack Cryptic Coloration, and a few are so brightly colored they have no proficiency in Stealth. These uncamouflaged species are sometimes thorny or poisonous (see below) but others simply live in the lightless depths of the sea where coloration serves no purpose.​

Was going to give it another Note paragraph describing its hunting habits plus the Thorny Star and Poisonous Star variants after the main description.

Finally, sea stars have very good regenerative abilities. Although they vary a bit by species, if you cut a starfish in half it can often survive and grow into two starfish, while chopping one into chunks might result in a plague of the creatures a few months later.

I fancy incorporating that into the creature. Either by expanding its Regrowth trait or creating a Variant of it. Maybe rename the trait Regenerative Regrowth?

To be effective I'm thinking it needs a Variant: Severable Arms based on the Shed Arms trait of the Brittle Star's Variant: Brittle Limbs. Then an attacker can actually chop or tear an arm off so it can grow into a new sea star.

 

[Casimir Liber]

yes - all these sound good - I think easiert o make the cryptic coloration part of the core traits as well as pretty common. Given they are slow - seeing what can be done to improve stealth seems highly prudent

 

[Cleon]

yes - all these sound good - I think easiert o make the cryptic coloration part of the core traits as well as pretty common. Given they are slow - seeing what can be done to improve stealth seems highly prudent

Fine by me. I'll update the Giant Sea Star to be sneakier.

I have a fairly clear idea of the Description set out in my head, so let's get started…

…​

Regenerative Regrowth. If a giant sea star loses an arm, organ or other body part and survives, it regrows the lost body parts as it heals. It takes 15 (1d10 + 10) days for a giant sea star to replace a missing arm.
 If a giant sea star is killed or loses part of its body to bludgeoning, piercing or slashing damage (see Severable Sea Star), it must make a DC 15 Constitution saving throw, with Disadvantage if the injury is particularly catastrophic or Advantage for a neat severing. If it succeeds, the sea star and/or its severed portion survives and slowly regrows into a complete giant sea star. A giant sea star that is cleaved in twain can thus become two new seastars. To form a full-sized giant sea star, Regenerative Regrowth takes 5 to 30 (5d6) days for a "dead" giant sea star and 3 to 6 (1d4 + 2) weeks for a Large portion of one, 2 to 5 (1d4 + 1) months for a Medium portion, 5 to 21 (2d8 + 3) months for Small, and 1 to 6 (1d6) years for Tiny. Note that giant sea star eggs take around 10 (4d4) years to develop into full grown adults.

VARIANT: SEVERABLE SEA STAR?
Sea stars have a very robust biology and some species can survive being torn into pieces, with each piece potentially becoming a new starfish due to their Regenerative Regrowth trait. A region plagued with giant sea star often finds them very hard to eradicate, since killing a sea star can multiply the problem. Sea stars are not immortal, of course, and can die from starvation, disease, age, or being eaten like any animal. There are few creatures that will eat a fully grown giant sea star, but their eggs are very edible and the smaller or partially regrown individuals are sometimes devoured by predators. These giant sea stars have the following trait.
 Severable Parts. Whenever the giant sea star takes at least 8 bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage from a single attack, roll #d# plus one-fourth [?] of the damage inflicted to determine what happens. If the sea star is grappled by a creature that is Large size and/or possesses a Strength of 26 or higher, roll #d# plus the attacker's Strength bonus to determine what happens, adding +2 for Huge attackers, +4 for Gargantuan.

1-#: Nothing else happens.
#-#: A Tiny portion is separated from the sea star.
#-#: A Small portion is separated from the sea star.
#-##: A Medium portion is separated from the sea star. (may lose an Arm?)
##-##: A Large portion is separated from the sea star. (loses an Arm, possibly two?)
##+: The sea star is torn in twain, becoming two Large portions. (divide Arms between them?)​

 More rules.


Description

A giant sea star is an enormous version of an ordinary starfish with an arm span of about 20 to 30 feet, large enough to swallow most humanoids. Sea stars, also known as starfish or asteroids, are a familiar sight on beaches. Star shaped marine animals covered in heavy bony armor, they move around very slowly on hundreds of boneless tubular pseudolegs on the underside of their body and five arms.
 Predators and scavengers, sea stars mainly eat bivalves such as clams or scallops plus whatever carrion they come across. A few eat coral, scouring patches of reef down to its rocky skeleton.

 Creeping Hunters. A giant sea star will eat anything it can catch, the trouble it has is catching them. The creature follows the scent of food, sneaking up to its meal so slowly the potential prey might not notice its approach. When it lays an arm on its victim the sea star's myriad tubular legs grips them with great force, then it crawls over the target and slowly wraps them in its arms. Giant sea stars may be very slow but they are incredibly strong; their hydraulic musculature helps them easily pry apart the shells of a giant clam or crack open the exoskeleton of a giant crab (their favorite foods). This attack is just as effective against rigid metal armor worn by humanoids.
 Once a victim is in the starfish's embrace, the giant sea star produces a fleshy pouch from its mouth. This organ is part of the sea star's stomach. If the sea star has broken open it's prey's shell or armor, the starfish inserts its invertible stomach through the broken gap and starts digesting them from the inside, otherwise it just engulfs as much of the target as will fit. If the meal is too big to "swallow" it digests them piecemeal. A giant sea star's digestive enzymes are far stronger than a normal sea star's and it can dissolve a man-sized creature's soft tissues in a few minutes. The indigestible remains are then spat out.

 Cryptic Starfish. Most giant sea stars are colored and patterned to match the sea floor they live on, represented by the Cryptic Coloration trait. This makes it easier to sneak up to prey and avoid the attention of creatures that hunt them. Some cryptic sea stars also have aquatic plants or even animals such as sea anemones growing on them to help them blend into their background. There are giant sea stars that lack Cryptic Coloration, and a few are so brightly colored they have no proficiency in Stealth. These uncamouflaged species are sometimes thorny or poisonous (see below) but others live in the lightless depths of the sea where coloration serves no purpose.

VARIANT: THORNY SEA STAR?
???.

VARIANT: POISONOUS SEA STAR?
???.

 

[Casimir Liber]

Description looks all good so far - I'd probs not use "simply" but not overly fussed