Quasqueton
First Post
Here's yet another thread to discuss a paladin's actions.
[I've just started playing this paladin (6 game sessions so far) from 1st level in a new campaign. So I find these discussions very interesting, and relevant.]
The character in question is a 2nd-level paladin of Torm.
I'm going to be very vague about the details of the campaign and adventure here, because it is a popular published product -- I don't want to spoil it for other Players or DMs.
Our party of 6 PCs are in a pretty bad town. Plenty of evil people, legal authority is corrupt. My paladin is the type to destroy evil. If it detects as evil, it is Evil, and my paladin is free to act. [All of us at the game table understand and are agreed on this, DM included.] But, of course, I have to consider the ramifications and ripple effects of my acts. My paladin does not go around detecting evil and immediately smiting. In fact, I've been *very* self-restrained in this regard.
We've been attacked by evils (and a couple non-evils) on the streets of this town, we've raided and destroyed an evil cult, and most recently went against slavers. Most everyone I/we've killed in our adventures were actively attacking us first.
I've executed one detectably and demonstratedly evil captive (he had not willingly surrendered, but rather had been stabalized, healed, and charmed after a fight -- plus, I was poisoned down to 7 Wisdom at the time of the deed). I've let two non-evil attackers go. I've let one very minor evil person (1st-level commoner-type) go free, though I tried to "turn" him somewhat with liberal use of Diplomacy skill. I've warned him I'm watching him.
In our adventures in this town, we've encountered an orc pirate captain with an all-orc crew. He detected as evil, and in subsequent personal conversations with him (he didn't know I was a paladin), he admitted to being a pirate. He also turned down an offer to take honest money for transporting passagers (us) -- he essentially said he didn't want to do it because it would cramp his pirating activities.
I determined this pirate had to be destroyed. I started planning, and a couple of the other PCs agreed to help me. The other PCs couldn't see the need to take on this pirate. "Why this particular pirate? There are a dozen pirates in port." I explained: because we know he is evil, he has admitted directly to me he is a pirate, and he even turned down an opportunity to make honest money in favor of killing and pillaging, plus we have his "address". They were not convinced.
(Un)fortunately, this pirate sailed off before I could start my plans against him. (We have been very busy in this town since arriving.)
Our latest adventure had us investigating some slavers. In our adventure we stumbled in on a three-way standoff between groups of evil people (group of orcs, group of slavers, and mage and his bodyguard). I detected they were all evil. Our PC bard initiated diplomacy with the orcs while our PC cleric discussed the situation with the mage & bodyguard. The slaver group was lead by a down-right rude ***hole. The bard pretty much made friends with the orcs, but the cleric was only lied to by the mage, and the slaver leader just insulted us more. We were at a stalemate. No one wanted to move first (for good reasons I won't get into here), so my paladin opened the battle by charging and attacking the rude (and evil) leader of the slavers.
The orcs kept an unspoken truce and alliance with us to take out the slavers, while my PC associates took out the lying mage. The mage's bodyguard (who had actually shown honor and honesty with us) surrendered in good faith. He never raised a weapon against any of us, and he didn't seem to be using the surrender to cheat us in any way. We accepted his surrender.
With the help of the orcs, we finished off a bigger evil in the next room (the cause of the original stalemate). These orcs held to our alliance during a very dangerous encounter. Afterward, though, they said, speaking with the PC bard, they wanted possession of our prisoner. They were distracted in another room when the PC bard relayed this info to the group.
I said I would not give them the prisoner. I wanted for us to all just leave while the orcs were busy in the other room. We could slip out with the prisoner and be away with no more conflict. This is what seemed to completely surprise my fellow Players.
Arguments of "I thought you wanted to kill all evil?" and "You're going to protect this evil person from those evil persons, and not wipe them all out?" The other PCs wanted to just go jump the orcs immediately, or give the prisoner over to them and then leave.
I was looking at the situation from the point that our prisoner had surrendered to us in good faith -- not in an attempt to paralyze a paladin (he didn't know there was a paladin among us, as I was in "disguise") by playing on his honor. The other group had honored our alliance and truce and we supported each other in the big battle. I saw it as although they were evil, and it was my calling to destroy evil, everyone had been honorable up to that point and I didn't think we should break any of the deals (alliance or surrender). [In hindsight, if I had just waited for the orcs to come to us, they would have probably attacked us and thereby negated our truce. I could have killed them with a clear conscience. But I was not that patient at the time.]
We ended up leaving the scene with our prisoner. When we got away from the "dungeon", I cut the prisoner's ropes and told him to never cross my path again. I let him go (had no one to turn him over to).
So, my question to this forum: What do you think of my paladin's actions? Where they completely off the wall as seemed to be the opinion of my group? Where they completely opposite my character's calling?
For the record: there is no talk of punishment to the paladin. This is not an issue of loosing powers, or anything like that. This is just a question comparing a character's actions to the character's personality.
Quasqueton
[I've just started playing this paladin (6 game sessions so far) from 1st level in a new campaign. So I find these discussions very interesting, and relevant.]
The character in question is a 2nd-level paladin of Torm.
I'm going to be very vague about the details of the campaign and adventure here, because it is a popular published product -- I don't want to spoil it for other Players or DMs.
Our party of 6 PCs are in a pretty bad town. Plenty of evil people, legal authority is corrupt. My paladin is the type to destroy evil. If it detects as evil, it is Evil, and my paladin is free to act. [All of us at the game table understand and are agreed on this, DM included.] But, of course, I have to consider the ramifications and ripple effects of my acts. My paladin does not go around detecting evil and immediately smiting. In fact, I've been *very* self-restrained in this regard.
We've been attacked by evils (and a couple non-evils) on the streets of this town, we've raided and destroyed an evil cult, and most recently went against slavers. Most everyone I/we've killed in our adventures were actively attacking us first.
I've executed one detectably and demonstratedly evil captive (he had not willingly surrendered, but rather had been stabalized, healed, and charmed after a fight -- plus, I was poisoned down to 7 Wisdom at the time of the deed). I've let two non-evil attackers go. I've let one very minor evil person (1st-level commoner-type) go free, though I tried to "turn" him somewhat with liberal use of Diplomacy skill. I've warned him I'm watching him.
In our adventures in this town, we've encountered an orc pirate captain with an all-orc crew. He detected as evil, and in subsequent personal conversations with him (he didn't know I was a paladin), he admitted to being a pirate. He also turned down an offer to take honest money for transporting passagers (us) -- he essentially said he didn't want to do it because it would cramp his pirating activities.
I determined this pirate had to be destroyed. I started planning, and a couple of the other PCs agreed to help me. The other PCs couldn't see the need to take on this pirate. "Why this particular pirate? There are a dozen pirates in port." I explained: because we know he is evil, he has admitted directly to me he is a pirate, and he even turned down an opportunity to make honest money in favor of killing and pillaging, plus we have his "address". They were not convinced.
(Un)fortunately, this pirate sailed off before I could start my plans against him. (We have been very busy in this town since arriving.)
Our latest adventure had us investigating some slavers. In our adventure we stumbled in on a three-way standoff between groups of evil people (group of orcs, group of slavers, and mage and his bodyguard). I detected they were all evil. Our PC bard initiated diplomacy with the orcs while our PC cleric discussed the situation with the mage & bodyguard. The slaver group was lead by a down-right rude ***hole. The bard pretty much made friends with the orcs, but the cleric was only lied to by the mage, and the slaver leader just insulted us more. We were at a stalemate. No one wanted to move first (for good reasons I won't get into here), so my paladin opened the battle by charging and attacking the rude (and evil) leader of the slavers.
The orcs kept an unspoken truce and alliance with us to take out the slavers, while my PC associates took out the lying mage. The mage's bodyguard (who had actually shown honor and honesty with us) surrendered in good faith. He never raised a weapon against any of us, and he didn't seem to be using the surrender to cheat us in any way. We accepted his surrender.
With the help of the orcs, we finished off a bigger evil in the next room (the cause of the original stalemate). These orcs held to our alliance during a very dangerous encounter. Afterward, though, they said, speaking with the PC bard, they wanted possession of our prisoner. They were distracted in another room when the PC bard relayed this info to the group.
I said I would not give them the prisoner. I wanted for us to all just leave while the orcs were busy in the other room. We could slip out with the prisoner and be away with no more conflict. This is what seemed to completely surprise my fellow Players.
Arguments of "I thought you wanted to kill all evil?" and "You're going to protect this evil person from those evil persons, and not wipe them all out?" The other PCs wanted to just go jump the orcs immediately, or give the prisoner over to them and then leave.
I was looking at the situation from the point that our prisoner had surrendered to us in good faith -- not in an attempt to paralyze a paladin (he didn't know there was a paladin among us, as I was in "disguise") by playing on his honor. The other group had honored our alliance and truce and we supported each other in the big battle. I saw it as although they were evil, and it was my calling to destroy evil, everyone had been honorable up to that point and I didn't think we should break any of the deals (alliance or surrender). [In hindsight, if I had just waited for the orcs to come to us, they would have probably attacked us and thereby negated our truce. I could have killed them with a clear conscience. But I was not that patient at the time.]
We ended up leaving the scene with our prisoner. When we got away from the "dungeon", I cut the prisoner's ropes and told him to never cross my path again. I let him go (had no one to turn him over to).
So, my question to this forum: What do you think of my paladin's actions? Where they completely off the wall as seemed to be the opinion of my group? Where they completely opposite my character's calling?
For the record: there is no talk of punishment to the paladin. This is not an issue of loosing powers, or anything like that. This is just a question comparing a character's actions to the character's personality.
Quasqueton
