See invisibility & Mirror Image

[carborundum]

I'd a bad guy caster yesterday who was invisible and mirror imaged. A PC cast See invisibility.
Since See Invisibility does not see illusions, we agreed that he could see one bad guy. I'm curious as to whether that was correct.

On the one hand, Mirror Image has no effect when invisible (by the spell text) but I kind of assumed that was to stop the abuse of rolling first a miss chance and then randomly for which image. I figured that if someone hit that square and made the miss chance then they hit the real guy - that was not an issue. I do allow the spell to go off though.

The only question is if a mirror imaged wizard goes invisible, and someone using see invisibility looks at them, would they see multiple targets or not?

 

[Aidan Milvus]

Hmm... This question intrigued me. So I had to research it. Where did you get that See Invisibility doesn't see illusions? Blur is an Illusion spell, same level as Mirror Image, and SI can't see through the blurring effect. The reference in Mirror Image about Invisibility is that it wouldn't do any good to be invisible while you have MI up, because no one could see the images, the same way it would be negated if someone closed their eyes and swung at you. So, from my understanding, once the player cast SI to see the invisible caster, he'd then see him, along with the Mirror Images. My reasoning, is if he'd still be blurry, he'd also still have his figment images around him as well, which would now be as visible to the SI caster as the Invisible character himself would.

 

[Elethiomel]

Since See Invisibility does not see illusions, we agreed that he could see one bad guy. I'm curious as to whether that was correct.

According to my PHB, the text is "It does not reveal illusions or ebable you to see through opaque objects". I believe that there's an implied "as mere illusions" after "It does not reveal illusions"; otherwise the spell could be used to defeat all illusions. I think that is too powerful to be its intended effect. Hence, it would see an invisible illusion just as it would see a visible illusion.

 

[Folly]

As carborundum stated in his post, Mirror Image states that it has no effect if the user is invisible. There is were the issue arises from. I would say RAW the mirror image would have no affect against the players that did not have see invis and would have affect against the players that do have see invis. This is because of the interaction of See Invisibility and Mirror Image. Mirror Image says that "If you are invisible or an attacker shuts his or her eyes, the spell has no effect." Thus since you are invisible mirror image has no effect. The catch comes in See Invisibility, "You can see any objects or beings that are invisible within your range of vision, as well as any that are ethereal, as if they were normally visible." The key here is the "as if they were normally visible." Thus if the invisible caster was normally visible then the mirror image would be functioning.

 

[carborundum]

I think it's the "It does not reveal illusions " bit that caused the discussion last night. It was one of those hectic moments and it wasn't a tactical issue - just ... intriguing. It suited the story to let it go and concentrate on other stuff.. plus the pc in question was going to use a fireball anyway

I guess that the text really means that it does not reveal an illusion for what it is, not that it doesn't see them at all.

 

[MarkB]

The real question is, do the Mirror Images turn invisible when the subject does, or do they simply take on the appearance of being invisible? Given that illusions are not objects or creatures, and thus not valid subjects for an invisibility spell, and that the Mirror Image spell does not, itself, create an invisibility effect, I would tend toward the conclusion that the images merely mimic the appearance of the caster - that is, they vanish from sight - and cannot project the "translucent shapes" that a character with See Invisibility perceives when viewing a truly invisible subject.

So yeah, IMO See Invisibility trumps (Mirror Image + Invisibility). But there are good arguments for either side, so it'd have to be a DM call.

 

[carborundum]

LOL - yeah! Is a mirror image of an invisible person 'invisible' or merely 'not visible'?

D&D does wonders for the ability to articulate one's arguments. It certainly comes in handy at work for setting out the various choices, opinions, points of view or whatever during a meeting. They all think I had an amazing education!