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Seekers of the Ashen Crown

happybandit

First Post
I was wondering if anyone had run this adventure. I am new to Dming and new to D&D in general so I've been running adventures until I really get the hang of things. There is one encounter in this book I can't seem to get my head around. It is Encounter 3: Dragon's Maw, the entire room is a trap and I'm having difficulty understanding exactly how everything works. All of my players are new to D&D too so I know if I'm having trouble understanding it they certainly will. Just looking for suggestions on how to run it if anyone has any. Thanks.
 

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Dalzig

First Post
Wow... that encounter is... wow...

I was planning on running this adventure soon, so if anyone has any helpful hints about running this, fire away.
 

nicholasgeorg

First Post
This is tough one for new GMs. I don't have the booklet with me, or I'd do a walkthrough. But be ready for it to take a while.

Does anyone in the party have an extraordinary perception bonus?
 


gribble

Explorer
Ok, I haven't run it, but here's a basic rundown:

First things first, the trap DCs for detection & countermeasures. These seem to fall afoul of the DMG errata for DCs (which aren't in line with the DMG 2 trap DCs...). The DCs seem to be 5 (easy), 7-8 (moderate) or 10 (hard). I'd increase these in line with the DMG 2 guidelines to 5, 10 and 15 (respectively). Any DC already 15 or higher I wouldn't increase. This is especially important because the Perception detection DCs are compared to the PCs passive Perception, making all of the information automatically detected for any party with at least one PC without a Perception penalty (i.e.: every party in existence). Chances are any given party will already have at least one PC with a passive Perception of 15 or more, but no point in making things too easy!

Right, so when the PCs first enter the room, I'd read/paraphrase the first boxed text, draw the map (omitting the P/S squares of course) and compare the passive Perception scores of the party with the moderate DCs (10 if using the DMG 2 DCs, 8 as written) to detect the steep, poorly mortared stairs and oddly hinged doors. Chances are good that at least one PC will notice. Note that I wouldn't use passive Perception scores to give them the second pieces of information under the stairs and ceiling detection entries - these should only be discovered with an active check after taking the prescribed action or asking specifically about them.

At this point, the PCs should be suspicious of the room, and should start making active Perception checks and/or attempts to bypass/disable the trap. I'd do this in a "round the table" fashion - allowing each PC to take one action and/or move their PC into the room. Once at least one PC moves into the room proper, read/paraphrase the second piece of boxed text, and compare the passive Perception of that PC with the easy/hard DCs to detect the abnormal ceiling and floor tiles. It's important to note the position of PCs in relation to the stairs and room itself.

Use the detection & countermeasures section of the trap stat block to run these "around the table" rounds - it should be fairly self explanatory (though note that the PCs should specify the action they're trying to take, and therefore shouldn't be able to - for example - open one of the trapdoors before they detect them).

Continue this until the trap is is bypassed/disabled or the trap is triggered by one of the following conditions:
  • Two centre plates are depressed at the same time (I'd rule this as being if PCs and/or heavy objects are on 2 or more of the centre plates at the end of a "round")
  • A PC attempts to open the opposite doors.

At this point, a number of things happen immediately (essentially the traps "surprise round" actions), as outlined by the trigger section of the stat block:
  • Both sets of doors slam closed and lock.
  • The centre plates begin rocking violently (no immediate effect).
  • The stairs flatten effecting all characters standing on the stairs (see the description in the stat block).
  • The floor pits open effecting all characters standing on a P square (see the description in the stat block).
  • The ceiling spikes attack all characters standing on a S square (see the description in the stat block).
  • The kruthik's emerge from the tunnel and attack (as described under development).

At this point make the PCs roll initiative and roll initiative for the kruthiks. Each PC/kruthik acts in initiative order with the usual in combat actions. On initiative count 15, the ceiling spikes attack again (see the description in the stat block).

Any PC starting their turn in the pit is attacked by the grinding ball (see the description in the stat block).

Any PC starting their turn on a centre square must make a Acrobatics check or be moved off (as per the countermeasures section of the stat block) - the trap doesn't specify, but I'd make this a free action at the start of the PCs turn.

Any PC starting their turn on a stair/ramp square acts normally but must make Athletics checks to move. Again the trap doesn't specify, but I'd rule normal move actions aren't allowed. As a free action a PC can choose to fall (as would failing an Athletics check by 5 or more), resulting in them sliding down to the bottom (as per the trigger section of the stat block). I'd also rule that moving onto (or around) either stair/ramp also requires an Athletics check.

At the end of 5 rounds (if the PCs haven't exited the room before then) the trap resets - woe betide anyone still in the pit at this point, because they'll continue to be ground until someone opens the pit and gets them out. Make sure you've got a counter of some sort to keep track of the rounds.

I think that pretty much covers it. It's very complex, but reads like it'd play out very well (other than the low DCs).
 
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Chris Knapp

First Post
This image we made might help visualize the way it looks without all the letters. Top is normal, bottom is triggered.
 

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Jhaelen

First Post
I've run the first part of the adventure. This encounter was the one I liked least - it's way too complex for what it's doing since it didn't really pose a decent threat. My players didn't seem to mind but I felt it wasn't really exciting.

Also, noone (including myself) was able to explain how that grinding ball was supposed to work. In the end we just collectively shrugged and applied the game effect as written.

Despite that encounter, though, everyone was pretty excited about what was our first contact with 4E. All of the other encounters felt quite dangerous until the party reached second level (it was a party of seven first level pcs) after their combat against Ashurta, which was very close to a TPK.

Mopping up the Kuthriks was a cakewalk by comparison.

P.S.: Noone figured out the riddle which didn't surprise me. The hints are very sparse and I had to reread everything twice to even understand _what_ the hints were... It didn't really matter, though, since the adventure actually works better if the riddle isn't solved.
 

Skywalker

Adventurer
P.S.: Noone figured out the riddle which didn't surprise me. The hints are very sparse and I had to reread everything twice to even understand _what_ the hints were... It didn't really matter, though, since the adventure actually works better if the riddle isn't solved.

No one is meant to work it out. The short cut is there to reduce the dungeon down on the return at the end of the adventure. However, to disallow the shortcut altogether would have been poor, so they provided just enough clues to make it feel like you could work it out, but not enough to actually work it out :)
 

DrOct

First Post
I know I'm resurrecting a somewhat old thread here but I'm probably going to be running my group through this adventure pretty soon and i have a question about this trap.

I'm sure i"m missing something obvious here but... How exactly does the party get past the trap? Opening the doors opposite the ones they came in triggers the trap, which in turn slams those doors shut again. So does someone have to disable the doors in order for the party to get out? Can they open them again after the trap has been triggered? I just feel like I'm missing something...
 

Delgar

First Post
I'm in the middle of running this right now, in an online game using maptools.

I litterally left my players with a cliffhanger at the end of last session, they triggered the trap and two players are dangling over the grinding stone, one player got stabbed by the tooth.

The DC's as written are WAY too low especially for passive perceptions. Odds are you're going to have one person with a passive perception close to 20. In my group I have 2 over 20. They should supsect a trap but not walk into the room and know ABSOLUTELY everything.

I bumped all the DC's up by 5 and most of the perception DC's by 10. Even by 10 perceptive PC's still get a lot of information.

It took me several reads through to really understand the meat of the trap and how to run it. But in answer to someones question as to how they get past it. I think that if they get through the doors while the trap is active they are okay.

But if the trap has reset and they open the doors, the trap will retrigger. So, I think the only way through is while the trap is active. OF course they can also squeeze there way through the kruthik tunnel as well, so I guess it depends on what your players do.

But basically for 5 rounds while the trap is active the players will have to make checks to move, avoid pits and spikes and try to escape. IF they fail to open or break the door in 5 rounds, you can feel free to have the trap no reset if things become stagnant. I mean the trap is 1000's of years old, if it fails to reset no biggie right. :)

My biggest advice is to up the DC's, as peresented they are extremely low. Even someone untrained with a low stat has a very little chance of failing any of them. But be perpared to roll with a lot of crazy ideas that your players might have on escaping the death trap.

I personally plan on having the kruthiks leaping out and hanging on to the pc's dangling above the stone making it harder for them to pull themselves up, and I'll have at least one of the kruthiks get grinded by the stone to increase the tension. But I'm also doubling the number of minions and running the game at a level higher than presented in the book.

My players are quite excited to see how it all turns out and it really was a perfect ending spot for the evening.
 

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