Seeking advice on a Rogue character build

[johnsemlak]

Thanks for the advice all. Good stuff here.

Manyshot is a prerequisite for Improved Rapid Shot.

You could get those two, if you drop one other, like the EWP (bola), you still need to make those Trip checks and with such a low Strength...

Bye
Thanee

Good pont about IRS feat. And you're right, EWP Bola is probably not worth it. Thought, personally, I think the trip check should be based on DEX, not STR, but I'm not the DM...

If you want to capitalize on your sneak attacks, I'd suggest gestalting with wizard so you can cast invisibility and blink. Cleric of Trickery would also get you Invisibility in a pinch.

That's a good idea. However, I think at 10th level, I can afford a Wand of Invisibility or a Ring of Invisibility, and other magic. Wouldn't that be sufficient to aid Sneak Attacks? TO use wands, I'd have to succeed at the DC 20 Use Magic Device check, of course, My current bonus is + 13,

I can't use Skilll Mastery for Use Magic Device, Right?

Sacrificing 3 figheter levels for wizard levels by my calcualtion costs me +1 BAB, the Weapon Specization Feat, and 6 HP. I'd get +3 to my will save, but -1 to Fort.

Sacrificing one Figher level for one wizard level would make it complicated. I believe I'd loose +1 to BAB, 2 HP, but gain +2 to my will save, and gain ability to use magic items.

Tough call for me.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

It looks to me like you're making one of the classic mistakes of character construction. The first, of course, is never build a character to start a land war in Asia. The second, only slightly less well known is "do not build an archer rogue." Rogues are not good archers. The problem is that their primary combat ability: sneak attack really does not work very well with archery. (The only way it does is with Improved Invisibility and/or Blink). Even with a ring or wand of invisibility, since it takes a standard action to activate, you would be looking at 1d8+x+5d6 every two rounds at the cost of a charge instead of 6d8+6x over two rounds where x is your non-sneak attack bonus damage. Talk about a bad deal!

If you're really insistent on making an archer rogue, take the five levels of wizard as your gestalt class so that you can: 1: get Blink and 2: qualify for Arcane Trickster.

Gestalt Wizard/Rogue 5 /Arcane Trickster 5 would be a very good combo. (Even if it does abuse the heck out of gestalt rules).

Alternatively, Gestalt Wizard/Rogue 5 /Wizard 2/Rogue 3 would be a very good character as well. You could cast greater invisibility and blink through the wizard levels thus greatly enhancing your ability to sneak attack.

If you want to go gestalt fighter/rogue 5 /rogue 5, then I recommend playing your character in combat as a fighter rather than a rogue. Pretend you don't have sneak attack (because you won't after the first round of combat) and pick up fighter type classes after level 12 so that you never lose more than the one point of BAB. That way, you'd be a fighter with rogue skills and an extra sneak attack kick in the first round of combat. If you do that, though, you'll want to increase your strength to at least 14--possibly 16 since you still need strength to do good damage when you don't get sneak attacks.

 

[Thanee]

Gestalt Wizard/Rogue 5 /Arcane Trickster 5 would be a very good combo. (Even if it does abuse the heck out of gestalt rules).

It actually says in the rules in UA, that the class-combination PrC (like Arcane Trickster ) should be prohibited in combination with Gestalt.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

And about the Blink...

Blinking: On command, this ring makes the wearer blink, as with the blink spell.
Moderate transmutation; CL 7th; Forge Ring, blink; Price 27,000 gp.

Expensive, but probably worth it.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

It actually says in the rules in UA, that the class-combination PrC (like Arcane Trickster ) should be prohibited in combination with Gestalt.

In case you wonder why...

Spoiler

The One Man Adventuring Party

01: Sorcerer / Ranger - +1 BAB +2 Fort, Ref, Will d8 HD 6+Int(x4) SP
02: Sorcerer / Cleric - +1 BAB +2 Fort, Will d8 HD 2+Int SP
03: Sorcerer / Cleric - +1 BAB +1 Ref d8 HD 2+Int SP
04: Sorcerer / Cleric - +1 BAB +1 Fort, Will d8 HD 2+Int SP
05: Mystic Theurge / Fighter - +1 BAB +2 Fort, Will d10 HD 2+Int SP
06: Mystic Theurge / Rogue - +1 BAB +1 Fort, +2 Ref, +1 Will d6 HD 8+Int SP
07: Mystic Theurge / Rogue - +1 BAB d6 HD 8+Int SP
08: Mystic Theurge / Rogue - +1 BAB +1 Ref, Will d6 HD 8+Int SP
09: Mystic Theurge / Fighter - +1 BAB +1 Ref d10 HD 2+Int SP
10: Mystic Theurge / Rogue - +1 BAB +1 Ref, Will d6 HD 8+Int SP
11: Mystic Theurge / Rogue - +1 BAB d6 HD 8+Int SP
12: Mystic Theurge / Rogue - +1 BAB +1 Fort, Ref, Will d6 HD 8+Int SP
13: Mystic Theurge / Fighter - +1 BAB d10 HD 2+Int SP
14: Mystic Theurge / Rogue - +1 BAB +1 Ref, Will d6 HD 8+Int SP
15: Arcane Trickster / Cleric - +1 BAB +2 Ref, Will d8 HD 4+Int SP
16: Arcane Trickster / Cleric - +1 BAB +1 Fort, Ref, Will d8 HD 4+ Int SP
17: Arcane Trickster / Fighter - +1 BAB d10 HD 4+Int SP
18: Arcane Trickster / Cleric - +1 BAB +1 Fort, Ref, Will d8 HD 4+Int SP
19: Arcane Trickster / Cleric - +1 BAB d8 HD 4+Int SP
20: Arcane Trickster / Cleric - +1 BAB +1 Fort, Ref, Will d8 HD 4+Int SP

Bye
Thanee

 

[johnsemlak]

Ok, I get the point about the wand of invisibility being ineffecient. Thanks

So, essentially, A ring of inviisibility would allow me a ranged sneak attack every other round; while a ring of blinking allow SA every round--correct? If so, yeah, the ring of Blinking is probably worth it. I've got 50,000 gp for magic items.

IME a rogue was pretty effective with a ranged weapon and a ring of invisibility. In a previous campaing we had one sneak attacking, turning invisible, and sneak attacking again pretty much at will. Now, I can't remember, perhaps the DM allowed him to activate it as either a free action or a move action, that may have helped.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

A single rogue can be effective against a party with the ring of invisibility and a bow because it doesn't really matter how long he takes. If he gets a surprise round, sneak attacks, uses the ring and runs away before the party can glitterdust him, then he can do that all day.... as long as all he's trying to do is wear down the party. If he's trying to keep them from accomplishing something specific: finding the mcguffin, or destroying the orb of evilness, he won't be able to do it because said rogue can't hold ground.

In a party environment, those tactics won't work because the whole party is not operating as guerillas. You get sneak attack, you go invisible, the fighter, cleric, and wizard are still visible, and they get hit, you pop up again and sneak attack, everyone else gets pounded on, then either the party wins despite your general ineffectiveness or they lose and you're on the menu next.

 

[Nail]

In a party environment, those tactics won't work .....

Absolutely.

Remember, your party will be expecting you to pull your own weight every round. Since you won't be there half the time (turning ivnvisible then moving)........

Moreover, invisibility is a wasted power after 10th level or so....many monsters NPC have access to abilities that allow them to find you. It's just not worth it.

A better bet: team up with the fighter in the party. Have him provide flanking.

As a final Nail in the coffin of the poor rogue: lots and lots of creatures CR 10+ are immune to criticals. So yer a second rate pin-cushion, at best.

 

[blargney the second]

I'll warn you in advance that with the Ring of Blinking, that 20% miss chance will be irritating. However, True Strike negates it completely, and multiple attacks mitigates it as well. Manyshot + Blinking is BAD: it puts all your eggs in one basket.

-blarg

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Actually, True Strike will only negate a miss chance from concealment. The 20% blink miss chance is from being on another plane when the arrow is fired and True Strike doesn't do anything for that.

The 20% miss chance is irritating, but denying your foes their dex bonus and getting +2 to hit them will often make up for it. Adding sneak attack damage more than makes up for it on average, though you will probably pull your hair out in frustration one combat out of 100 or so because you have 9 out of 10 attacks miss due to the blinking. However, your DM will pull his hair out because three crits in a row miss you due to blinking just as often.

I'll warn you in advance that with the Ring of Blinking, that 20% miss chance will be irritating. However, True Strike negates it completely, and multiple attacks mitigates it as well. Manyshot + Blinking is BAD: it puts all your eggs in one basket.

-blarg