Seeking Avice For A Necromancer

[Chronoglenn]

Well, I decided to take a more flavorful route and choose to play a necromancer in an upcoming campaign. I'm choosing to play a human, I have access to Libris Mortis and all of the fun books, however I'm running into a crossroads of decisions...

I can either go Cleric 3/Wizard 1 and then proceed down the Mystic Theurge road... however I've looked at the spells and the only way to make this feasible is to use the command undead spell very liberally. (I would be taking the Precocious Apprentice feat at 1st level to only require 1 level in Wizard to advance in Mystic Theurge 2 levels earlier)

The other way is to go Cleric 3/Wizard 1 and then proceed down the True Necromancer prestige class, that way I could command undead with rebuke undead, as well as with any animate undead spells... The only problem is, in order to not fall behind, all of the levels to spellcasting class would go into either wizard or cleric, the other class would falter...

The third option is just go strictly Cleric, and prestige class into Master of Shrounds, so that the rebuke undead levels stack...

Are there any other ways to make a necromancer character? Possibly better ways? I looked glanced through the forum but didn't see any previously... help would be appreciated ^_^

 

[Nightfall]

Best bet, Death Master from Dragon Compendium.

 

[moritheil]

I can either go Cleric 3/Wizard 1 and then proceed down the Mystic Theurge road... however I've looked at the spells and the only way to make this feasible is to use the command undead spell very liberally. (I would be taking the Precocious Apprentice feat at 1st level to only require 1 level in Wizard to advance in Mystic Theurge 2 levels earlier)

You mean Wiz 1/Clr 3, if you're using Precocious Apprentice. The order matters. And if you go Wiz 1/Clr 3, you should specialize and pick up Theurgic Specialist.

Are there any other ways to make a necromancer character? Possibly better ways? I looked glanced through the forum but didn't see any previously... help would be appreciated ^_^

It depends on what you want to do - are you totally focused on undead, or are the undead merely the bulk of your abilities? How much do you care about rebuking vs. having more spell slots? What's your role in the party - are you only providing cannon fodder and tanking, or are you supposed to be the only spellcaster?

What is optimal changes drastically with different answers to those questions.

 

[Chronoglenn]

Best bet, Death Master from Dragon Compendium.

Umm... I can't find a Dragon Compendium... closest thing I can find is Draconomicon, which doesn't have a Death Master (just a bunch of dragon prestige classes).

You mean Wiz 1/Clr 3, if you're using Precocious Apprentice. The order matters. And if you go Wiz 1/Clr 3, you should specialize and pick up Theurgic Specialist.

Yea, sorry, I'll try to keep order in mind better. Not used to talking about DnD on forums yet @_@. Also, what is Theurgic Specialist?

It depends on what you want to do - are you totally focused on undead, or are the undead merely the bulk of your abilities? How much do you care about rebuking vs. having more spell slots? What's your role in the party - are you only providing cannon fodder and tanking, or are you supposed to be the only spellcaster?

What is optimal changes drastically with different answers to those questions.

Hmm... I figured I wanted undead as a theme, my character is going to be emo ^_^ The only people who he thinks can stand him are undead, and thus he will have undead minions. I want to be able to command undead, skeletons and zombies at the beginning are easy with animate dead, but at later levels rebuking undead looks to be the only real way to command the undead (besides control undead which functions more to make them my friend) for any real length of time.

I know if I wanted an "optimal" I would most likely go Mystical Theurge and have more spells than anyone... I'd be functioning almost as an equal level cleric, and be only a little ways behind with the wizard. The reason for choosing Wizard is because there will be another wizard in the group and that matching would allow us to share spells. So to answer the question I know there will be at least one other spellcaster, possibly more.

My character is facinated by death. He wants necromancy to be the main 90% of his curriculum. If I wanted to make a character who could heal and blast away the Mystic Theurge would be the way to go, but I want the minions as well as the necromancer abilities...

Did I talk in circles too much? Is it apparent that I see the Mystic Theurge as the winner hands down with making an overpowered spellcaster?

 

[moritheil]

Yea, sorry, I'll try to keep order in mind better. Not used to talking about DnD on forums yet @_@. Also, what is Theurgic Specialist?

It's a feat that appears in Dragon Magazine. A specialist wizard (in your case, a necromancer) can stack his cleric and wizard levels to determine his caster level. This is, as you can imagine, crucial for maintaining hordes of undead.

Hmm... I figured I wanted undead as a theme, my character is going to be emo ^_^ The only people who he thinks can stand him are undead, and thus he will have undead minions. I want to be able to command undead, skeletons and zombies at the beginning are easy with animate dead, but at later levels rebuking undead looks to be the only real way to command the undead (besides control undead which functions more to make them my friend) for any real length of time.

Scott Ramsoomair would be proud.

I know if I wanted an "optimal" I would most likely go Mystical Theurge and have more spells than anyone... I'd be functioning almost as an equal level cleric, and be only a little ways behind with the wizard. The reason for choosing Wizard is because there will be another wizard in the group and that matching would allow us to share spells. So to answer the question I know there will be at least one other spellcaster, possibly more.

Actually, my point is that MT is not optimal in many cases.

My character is facinated by death. He wants necromancy to be the main 90% of his curriculum. If I wanted to make a character who could heal and blast away the Mystic Theurge would be the way to go, but I want the minions as well as the necromancer abilities...

Did I talk in circles too much? Is it apparent that I see the Mystic Theurge as the winner hands down with making an overpowered spellcaster?

It's apparent, but assuming you play all the way from 1 to 20, there are some levels in there where you're really going to be annoyed by your lack of top-tier spells.

Thematically, it sounds like you should look at the Pale Master - an arcane necromancer who gains undead-like appearance and properties, and spends tons of time surrounded by undead.

 

[Chronoglenn]

It's a feat that appears in Dragon Magazine. A specialist wizard (in your case, a necromancer) can stack his cleric and wizard levels to determine his caster level. This is, as you can imagine, crucial for maintaining hordes of undead.

Is there any way to get ahold of specific dragon magazines? because I actually have subscribed for quite a while... Or an online reference?

Scott Ramsoomair would be proud.

Although that comic is based off of DnDO... that's actually where my original character concept came from ^_^ I've actually had my character sing that modifed LP song as a first level wizard when I first made him... but I'm given a chance to "respec" as my group remakes itself adding new members, we only got to level 2 last time.

It's apparent, but assuming you play all the way from 1 to 20, there are some levels in there where you're really going to be annoyed by your lack of top-tier spells.

Thematically, it sounds like you should look at the Pale Master - an arcane necromancer who gains undead-like appearance and properties, and spends tons of time surrounded by undead.

Yea I know, but I figured I could fight my way through those few levels with my masses of lower level spells.

I looked at the Pale Master... but at first glance a divine class like Master of Shrouds would be more "optimal" (oh no he's using that word again!) especially since a lot of that class has defensive abilities, and I was hoping my throng of undead minions would keep me safe from harm ^_^

Need a mention my fellow spellcaster is going to be an Arachnomancer? With two sets of minions, I don't think we'll ever be hit by pansy melee! (And yea I know, DMs always find ways around things, I usually DM, but this is my characters mind set not the players )

 

[moritheil]

Well, ultimately, it's up to you to decide what fits your character.

 

[smootrk]

If you are dead-set on Mystic Theurge, take a different approach and take Archivist / Wizard.
Archivist being a divine caster from Heroes of Horror and free on WOTC site, essentially a scholarly divine caster who operates like a wizard with clerical spell list and the ability to scribe any divine spell into his prayerbook. Very flexible, and with the right prayerbook choices - could be a great Necro type.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20051007a&page=3

For Wizard, simply take Necromancy Specialist, give up abjuration (cause clerical spells will have this covered well) and your choice of another type of magic.

This combo allow you to use most of your ability scores into just INT/WIS and maybe CHA as well, and have the Uber Spellbook/Prayerbook. Grab a couple of Libris Mortis or other choice of Necro feats and you are there.

Another great resource for ideas is Hollowfaust, the city of Necromancers. Great Necro PRCs and other cool bits. 3.0 and setting specific (Scarred Lands), but with a little effort can be adapted to suit another campaign.

 

[Chronoglenn]

If you are dead-set on Mystic Theurge, take a different approach and take Archivist / Wizard.
Archivist being a divine caster from Heroes of Horror and free on WOTC site, essentially a scholarly divine caster who operates like a wizard with clerical spell list and the ability to scribe any divine spell into his prayerbook. Very flexible, and with the right prayerbook choices - could be a great Necro type.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20051007a&page=3

For Wizard, simply take Necromancy Specialist, give up abjuration (cause clerical spells will have this covered well) and your choice of another type of magic.

This combo allow you to use most of your ability scores into just INT/WIS and maybe CHA as well, and have the Uber Spellbook/Prayerbook. Grab a couple of Libris Mortis or other choice of Necro feats and you are there.

Another great resource for ideas is Hollowfaust, the city of Necromancers. Great Necro PRCs and other cool bits. 3.0 and setting specific (Scarred Lands), but with a little effort can be adapted to suit another campaign.

I figured if I took Mystic Theurge Cleric would be best considering I wouldn't be losing out on any abilities, whereas with the Archivist I would lose out on all of the abilities he gains, with the Cleric, I only lose out on a decent amount of his Rebuking ability.

I have a friend who has Hollowfaust... now if only I can get ahold of it from him...

I looked at that talent that adds Wizard and Cleric levels to turning... that can't be good, since if I go any prestige class I don't add the prestige class, thus I doubt it's that useful.

I know in the end it comes down to what I want... I'm just looking at everyone elses opinions. Basically I ask, "How would you make a necromancer?"

 

[Nightfall]

Like I said, Death Master is my choice but then that's because Orcus is involved.

Dragon Compendium is a creation of Paizo's that has all the stuff from past/present Dragon issues combined in one Volume. (though there's supposed to be more than one volume.)

I have access to Hollowfaust. If you want a non-evil Necromancer, use some of the ideas in that book.