D&D 5E SELF-HEALING- zero HP divide?

[toucanbuzz]

If you go to zero at anytime, that changes and short rests now use the longer 8 hour time while long rests take a week. This persists until you get a long rest week.

Constructive criticism, mine would mirror the observations of @Ruin Explorer and @Blue . Hitting 0 happens often enough that I expect to see at least 1 player go down in a session. Could be bad luck like the DM rolling double natural 20s on the attack, or a bad save, but it's inevitable and unavoidable. As Blue pointed out, you're likely going to be punishing your front-liners, who probably rely on a Long Rest class ability. In a timed campaign like TOA or Red Hand of Doom, brutal.

Personally, I don't like "whack-a-mole" one bit and my gamers have voiced over the years it's silly. Dragon breath for 50 damage, down. Healing Word, back up. Dragon claw for 30 damage, down. Healing Word, back up. Goblin slits your throat (critical hit) when down, 2 failed death saves. Healing Word or a Natural 20 death save, back up.

For the last 3+ years, I've been using a homebrew Vitality system (suggested by a UA article). Rather than go into full detail, attached it (1p). Works wonders, fixes "whack-a-mole," and didn't create excessive down time. In gameplay, it's been a lot more exciting (player feedback from two groups). I've posted on my homebrew awhile back, so not wanting to derail the conversation about it. Just for OP (or anyone else's) consideration if seeking a solution to "whack-a-mole."

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Personally, I don't like "whack-a-mole" one bit and my gamers have voiced over the years it's silly.

Part of the problem with "whack-a-PC" though is that 5E appears to be balanced on the presumption of "whack-a-PC". PC have much lower HP, and monsters do much more per-hit damage, than they did in 4E, for example. Being a player more nowadays I've really noticed this. For example in one game I'm playing a 4th-level Druid. I have what, 31 HP with my 14 CON? 18 AC.

1 Bugbear, CR1, isn't even an encounter. It takes 3 to make an Easy encounter. Yet a Bugbear's morningstar hits for 2d8+2. If it's a crit, it's 4d8+2, so literally one unlucky roll can bring me from full to 0. And that's not even from surprise or something (then a crit would be 4d8+4d6+2, which even on average would be 34 damage, more HP than I have!).

And yeah that'd have to be pretty unlucky, but I've seen hits like that. Hell, the first time I went through a door in the place we were in a couple of weeks ago, I was reduced to 3 HP (from full) in literally the first attack of the session. Further, a couple of normal hits which just rolled well on the damage could have the same result. And hitting AC18 (the highest in the party, just barely, got a couple on 17) is pretty likely.

So I think if you attempt to nerf what is usually (in my experience) more a result of bad rolls than anything else, you might want to look at how much damage monsters are doing. I know one DM who just doesn't do crits with monsters, period, because he doesn't think it really works out fun or interesting. I'm sure some people would object, but he still manages hard combats - indeed because of the lack of "sudden death" he can work with tougher scenarios and make them more tactical than one bad roll from a TPK.

 

[Guest 6948803]

I my opinion, simply using old good negative hp already helps mitigating whack-a-mole play. Once you need serious heal to stand up and fight (and not just gobbling down a goodberry), you try to avoid "soaking" damage (purposefully not healing too much hp) and try to keep fighting. You can make this more effective with level of exhaustion, as suggested above, also, using gritty realism "no full heal-up on long rest" rule makes hp more cherished resource without ruining fun for the group. Because what You proposed is, as said above, critical hit into group ability to press forward after some unlucky dice rolls. Also, its more punishing for short rest classes.

 

[Laurefindel]

healing word is probably the main "culprit" for whack-a-moling. Without that specific spell, PCs don't stand back up as easily (often requires moving into reach of enemy creatures, potentially disengaging from other creatures, requires action, etc) and because other healing spells are usually more potent, PCs raise from 0hp are more likely to withstand the following hit. The whack-a-mole syndrom isn't so much about PCs recovering from 0hp, its PCs recovering from 0hp only to be downed again before their next turn, then raised once again during the cleric's turn, and so forth.

Sometimes I'd like to change healing word into retreating word. When the clerics retreats out of combat, they can cast retreating word on a downed PC as a bonus action. The PCs gains 1d4+Wis hp and immediately moves out of the battlefield on the caster's turn. Fight is over for both of them.

 

[werecorpse]

We use several things to avoid whack a mole

1) HP go to -10 which means a small heal doesn’t always work
2) Every failed death save adds to the chance of getting a lingering injury which means being Below 1hp means at risk;
3) Intelligent enemies get the gag and attack unconscious PCs (risking their death & increasing their likelihood of lingering injuries); &
4) Revivify cost matters (due to diamond inflation & low treasure world) and you always come back with a lingering injury.

This combination has eliminated it as an issue for games I run.

 

[Iry]

I deal with Whack-A-Mole by making death saves last until you take a short or long rest.

It encourages the party to take 0 seriously, but leaves them a small buffer to go down once without serious repercussions. It's easier to die in a combat, but doesn't slow down gameplay much if you don't die.

It does make a character with 1-2 death saves very cautious, which slows things down a bit. But the party as a whole is a little more willing to run away to keep each other safe.

 

[Benjamin Olson]

This rule could be good for a grittier more deadly game.

I rarely see the whole whack-a-mole thing, most games I've played in or run the PCs tend to try to keep people healed up during combat, otherwise there is a chance that the main damage dealer will miss a turn while waiting for healing so this probably wouldn't be something I'd implement. I did think about implementing something like gaining scars when hitting 0 but hadn't figured out if/how it would have any mechanical impact.

I also don't see a lot of whack-a-mole and don't really see it as a problem when it does happen. If you are in a cycle of repeatedly bringing the same comrade up from zero you are not in good shape.

 

[Mon]

I would never play in such a game. This is the antithesis of fun.

Going down is usually:

1. A group failure. Front line not stopping foes getting to squishies, healing not happening or prioritized elsewhere, etc. This rule puts an onerous and long term penalty on one character for fault of the group.

2. Some characters, specifically front-liners, assume a lot more risk to go down then other classes. This rule penalizes them for filling a needed niche.

3. Going down can be the result of one bad roll - a crit against them, a failed save. So an adventure-long (likely) penalty comes form a bad die roll. 5e specifically removed "save or suck" spell, this not only puts back one roll but does it even bigger than affecting a single scene.

So the rule is both unfair and unfun. Never.

I would absolutely play in a game with this rule, and enjoy it - as long as I knew about it ahead of time.

Sure, it doesn't really jive with modern D&D sensibilities - and doesn't solve whack-a-mole within those sensibilities. However it does look like it might encourage a different style of play that I've enjoyed in past campaigns - with a different focus where you find your fun in other ways. A bit like early D&D dungeon/hex crawl campaigns, or perhaps roguelike PC games. In fact, compared with those games, where 0hp=dead, this rule is positively generous!

As long as everyone understands and buys in to the playstyle, it can be both fun and fair.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

For the last 3+ years, I've been using a homebrew Vitality system (suggested by a UA article). Rather than go into full detail, attached it (1p). Works wonders, fixes "whack-a-mole," and didn't create excessive down time. In gameplay, it's been a lot more exciting (player feedback from two groups). I've posted on my homebrew awhile back, so not wanting to derail the conversation about it. Just for OP (or anyone else's) consideration if seeking a solution to "whack-a-mole."

I think this system is neat. It's too bad, though, that you(or UA) didn't include a mechanic for Medicine to help renew Death Points or Heal Vitality. The way you have it, it's strictly the purview of magical healing which means mundane people without magic can never heal from grievous wounds. (Edit: I misread the healing.) But it seems like a great opportunity to make a semi-useless skill shine.

Edit: a Long Rest heals 1 vitality. Having someone make a medicine DC 'x' after a long rest, heals 2 vitality, for example.

 

[Blue]

I would absolutely play in a game with this rule, and enjoy it - as long as I knew about it ahead of time.

Sure, it doesn't really jive with modern D&D sensibilities - and doesn't solve whack-a-mole within those sensibilities. However it does look like it might encourage a different style of play that I've enjoyed in past campaigns - with a different focus where you find your fun in other ways. A bit like early D&D dungeon/hex crawl campaigns, or perhaps roguelike PC games. In fact, compared with those games, where 0hp=dead, this rule is positively generous!

As long as everyone understands and buys in to the playstyle, it can be both fun and fair.

It might be fun if you buy into it. But it still will not be fair. I listed my three reasons why I felt it was unfair, and buy-in doesn't change any of them. It would just be accepted.