Sell me on Complete Mage/Complete Scoundrel/Complete Champion

[Crothian]

So instead of more support for spellcasters and sneaky gits, you get new systems that change the game, not insignificantly.

One of the great things it has helped my group is with holding off the need to rest. I like that we can have 10 encounters in a given day and people still have plenty of character options left to use. Spell users are not as afraid of blowing spells to early as long as they hold on to one or two to power reserve feats. With a Dragon Shaman aura for healing it really has changed how we do dungeon crawls and the change has really sped things up.

 

[Mercule]

I love the Complete Scoundrel there is something in it for every class and plenty of Rogue love obviously.

I have the exact opposite opinion. I found nothing of value, even for rogues and bards. The skill tricks are the wonkiest and least desirable mechanic I've seen in absolute ages. All of them are either things the base skill should allow, anyway, or should just be feats.

One of my players picked up Complete Mage and I will probably get it, even after swearing off buying new mechanics-heavy books. Having read a good chunk of it, it looks very, very nice and the reserve feats are much better than I expected them to be.

I haven't seen Complete Champion, yet. No opinion.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I'd argue that Complete Mage is better than Complete Arcane. It has more creative spells -- with the publication of the Spell Compendium, they explicitly had to get away from "yet more ways to kill stuff in essentially the same ways as before" -- more flavorful PrCs and a lot of innovative feats.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Complete Mage - the Reserve Feats change the pace of the game. A lot. In my Iron Kingdoms games the Wizard blowing through the bulk of his spells pretty much determined when the adventurers would hole up for a while. Generally the party would be around 3/4 to 2/3 on hit points.

Now the wizard is a lot more likely to save his spells and use Reserve Feats for the bulk of the minor encounters, saving the bigger spells for later. The part tends to be down to 1/3 to 1/4 hit points when they hole up, and is more likely to be the cleric who runs out of spells.

With the addition of a healing Reserve Feat in Complete Champion things will likely even out a bit, with the party running around looking like ground beef - the healing Reserve Feat maxes out at 1/2 hit points. So I suspect that I will see a lot of characters running around at half hit points for much of the game. This will make the melee monsters a bit more deadly, I think.

For my game I really like the changes, in the past there were a few occasions the party would miss out on stuff because they left, giving time for the bad guys to get prepared. But the changes are not for everybody.

The Complete Scoundrel - Tricks are kind of neat, I wish the players would do more with them, unlike Reserve Feats it seems like they forget that the Tricks are there. Complete Scoundrel is another good book, and I really like the title!

The Complete Champion - I got it for the Divine Reserve Feats. Not all that fond of it otherwise. It seems a bit thin on things I would actually use in my games. You can't win 'em all. I like affiliations, but they ate up too much room in this book, and they are not the affiliations that I am likely to use.

The Auld Grump

 

[Grunk]

I like scoundrel and champion the most.

The affiliations and domain devotion feats from champion really help to make the divine more accessible to non-divine classes.

I like the tricks (though the wonky mechanics take a little getting used to) and Malconvoker class from Complete Scoundrel.

Mage is good too. Reserve Feats are pretty powerful and drastically change the face of the game, so the part of me that fears change is pretty resistant to this one.

 

[Warren Okuma]

Get it. It will be worth more in the future.

Someday in the future you will need it and will not have it and will kick yourself.

Someday a feat in this book will save your character's life.

Someday it will inspire you, but not in the way the author intends.

Ahahahahah!

 

[Laman Stahros]

I'm interested in what people might have to say - those three books seem to repeat ground that was covered in Complete Warrior/Arcane/Adventurer. I guess the "original four" Completes aren't so complete after all.

Since no one else has addressed your concerns, I will. These three books do not repeat ground that was in the original four. In many ways, the new three books do what I thought the first four would do. The newer books add elements of the arcane, divine, or scoundrel to any character. Very nice overall.