Sell me on the Warlock

[Guest 6801328]

So you're saying that you aren't smart enough to offer anything other than the cookie-cutter cliche.
That has more to do with your personal limitations than anything else. Other non-Eldritch Blast builds have appeared in this thread, so we know good non-Eldritch Blade builds exist.

And every single one of those builds would be even better (in the sense of more useful/powerful) by trading one cantrip for Eldritch Blast, and probably trading one Invocation for Agonizing Blast.

So, yeah, he's right that it's like trying to build a rogue that doesn't use Sneak Attack. Dumb exercise.

 

[Darkwing Duck]

And every single one of those builds would be even better (in the sense of more useful/powerful) by trading one cantrip for Eldritch Blast, and probably trading one Invocation for Agonizing Blast.

So, yeah, he's right that it's like trying to build a rogue that doesn't use Sneak Attack. Dumb exercise.

There's no need to maximize DPR. I care very, very little about maximizing DPR. I actually think it is kinda stupid. (oh look, my imaginary character can do X abstract number of imaginary damage per abstract amount of imaginary time!)
What I care about is whether a character (and, therefore, the player roleplaying that character) can get his fair share of the spotlight in a game.
I'm not going to be sold on a class with a DPR argument. You might as well give a ham sandwich to a Jew.

 

[FrogReaver]

Refer to the opening post about creating the best warlock and balancing offense and defense etc.

There's no need to maximize DPR. I care very, very little about maximizing DPR. I actually think it is kinda stupid. (oh look, my imaginary character can do X abstract number of imaginary damage per abstract amount of imaginary time!)
What I care about is whether a character (and, therefore, the player roleplaying that character) can get his fair share of the spotlight in a game.
I'm not going to be sold on a class with a DPR argument. You might as well give a ham sandwich to a Jew.

 

[GrumpyGamer]

Core: Hex + Grappler Feat

Race: Human (Take Grappler at level 1) or Dragon Born (Dex based save version)

Patron: Pick to best match your character background... maybe a slight nod to the Fiend for Dark One's Own luck at 6th level

Pact Boon: Likely Pact of the Blade (Going to max Strength first) and this gives you something to do when not grappling

Combat:
1) Hex your victim
2) Grapple them
3) Pin them
4) Let your party members attack them with advantage while they have disadvantage

Invocations:
at 2nd level: Armor of Shadow for AC; Mask of Many Face for out of game deception and to get close to your grapple target
at 5th leve: Thirsting Blade ​for more attacks when not grappling
At 7th level: Sculptor of Flesh for access to polymorph for a bigger grappling body
At 9th level: Ascendant Step so you can levitate yourself and drop them after you grapple them (I think it is RAW/RAI that they fall if you drop them, but you might want to check with your DM to make sure they don't float to the ground)

 

[Darkwing Duck]

Refer to the opening post about creating the best warlock and balancing offense and defense etc.

Refer to the opening post about

Create the best 9th Warlock you can with the one exception being that he does NOT have Eldritch Blast. By "best," you'll have to balance offense, defense, and out of combat effectiveness.

pay careful attention to the letters in caps.

 

[FrogReaver]

Refer to the opening post about pay careful attention to the letters in caps.

Let me state my point more plainly Your posts are inconsistent. You talk about maximizing offense defense and out of combat abilities (ie best) then you talk about not caring about maximizing dpr (ie offense). Can you please make up your mind about what you want?

 

[Darkwing Duck]

Let me state my point more plainly Your posts are inconsistent. You talk about maximizing offense defense and out of combat abilities (ie best) then you talk about not caring about maximizing dpr (ie offense). Can you please make up your mind about what you want?

What I want is very, very clear. I want examples of the best the Warlock can offer without Eldritch Blast. I never defined "best" as maximal DPR in some abstract situation.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Yeah, forgive us from assuming you cared about offense when your OP mentioned balancing offense. Forgive us for not realizing you're one of those types of players, who has to make a character mechanically at odds with their class as a RP crutch. Most people would just make a bard, and enjoy its much greater versatility if they didnt care about damage. Not you! You're going to cram that square peg into the round hole, while banging pots and pans to let everyone know what a special snowflake you are! YOUR warlock isnt like those OTHER warlocks (of which there are likely no other PC warlocks in the game)!

The reason why EB/AB gets brought up so much is because its a whopping 2 picks which easily cover all your offense needs (of which you implied were somewhat important) and let you get back to increasing versatility with your other invocations/spell selections. It's not MAD like going bladelock, requires no optimization skills, and gives you something effective to do when you need to kill something, which you'll probably need if your D&D game is like most standard ones (IE, fairly combat focused), because warlocks dont get many spells.

Watching someone ice skate uphill just to prove they are "RP'er than thou" was tiring for me in the 90's. I honestly find it more cliche than the dwarf with axe/elf with bow. Oh look, another 11 strength 12 dex fighter not in armor because it would clash with his outfit. How droll.

 

[GrumpyGamer]

No one is going to dispute this, but I think it is fair to see if there are other fun and viable Warlock builds...

 

[FrogReaver]

What I want is very, very clear. I want examples of the best the Warlock can offer without Eldritch Blast. I never defined "best" as maximal DPR in some abstract situation.

no it isn't clear at all. Starting with a misleading thread title and going into flip flopping about whether you care about offense at all.