Selling Magic Items

[Ridley's Cohort]

I advocate with sticking close to the book: sell for 50% of market price and buy for 100% (with small changes for good/bad skill rolls and contacts).

It just makes it so much easier on the DM.

If you want realism, you would have to put the item in the hands of a trustworthy merchant. He would come back to you with an offer in 1 to 12 months -- his 5-20% commission already figured into to price he brings you. You can take of leave it; wait another 1 to 12 months if you want a chance at a better price.

If you are selling an item and want cash the same day or within a few days, 50% is an extemely fair & reasonable price for liquidity and impatience.

The exact same thing happens when you sell something to a pawn shop in the real world. They will only offer you 20-30% of what they think they can sell it for. Anyone want to argue to me that pawn shops aren't realistic?

With all due respect, I think most people who think that 50% price is unrealistic have no clue how commerce works in the real world.

Here is an experiment: Sell your car to the local used car lot. Come back in 3 days see what price they are selling your old car for now.

Try the same trick with a diamond ring.

 

[Larcen]

...Why mess with it? Leave it at half and then buy things at list. Anything else are just mad attempts at powergaming it, trying to get the most out of what you got for personal gain. The DM has enough headaches without PCs squabbling over gold pieces like that. Just my take on it.

Man, tell this to our group's Wizard who took around 3 craft item feats just so he can sell them at a profite. Sounds to me like you want to him to front the material costs, take the time, lose XPs, and STILL only break even. Yeah, ok, THAT'S real economics for ya.

 

[Larcen]

I advocate with sticking close to the book: sell for 50% of market price and buy for 100% (with small changes for good/bad skill rolls and contacts).

It just makes it so much easier on the DM.

If you want realism, you would have to put the item in the hands of a trustworthy merchant. He would come back to you with an offer in 1 to 12 months -- his 5-20% commission already figured into to price he brings you. You can take of leave it; wait another 1 to 12 months if you want a chance at a better price.

If you are selling an item and want cash the same day or within a few days, 50% is an extemely fair & reasonable price for liquidity and impatience.

The exact same thing happens when you sell something to a pawn shop in the real world. They will only offer you 20-30% of what they think they can sell it for. Anyone want to argue to me that pawn shops aren't realistic?

With all due respect, I think most people who think that 50% price is unrealistic have no clue how commerce works in the real world.

Here is an experiment: Sell your car to the local used car lot. Come back in 3 days see what price they are selling your old car for now.

Try the same trick with a diamond ring.

Yeah, yeah, that's all fine and dandy and I get all that....but since we are talking potentially losing thousands here in a transaction, not a few coppers, I must ask again: Show me the page number in the rulebooks that put magic items closer to the equipment 1/2 price category and not the commodity full price category. It may be there, I just can't find it.

You want to talk about the real world, ok, I'll bite. In the real world if I create a unigue item, say a fine work of art, that is extremely appealing to a very wealthy group of avid buyers, and I go to were a whole bunch of these buyers congregate, you can bet I'll get top dollar for my item, maybe more if they start a bid war. Same applies to selling magic items to adventurers and nobles in a major metropolis, IMHO. Then again, maybe in YOUR campaign magic items grow on trees.

Again, I am not talking about getting full price...just NOT getting half.

And for all of you who think, "Just take the half and like it"...I say, "Yeah RIGHT, we are talking losing THOUSANDS here which can be used to buy spellbooks, equipment, etc, etc, etc...which has a direct and important impact on my PCs survival."

You can bet I want to haggle.

 

[njrpg]

I do this in my Waterdeep Campaign:

Have the PC wizard join the Order of Magists and Protectors for 40gp. Then he can list the item on a bulletin board. The Order gets 10% of the items value as a listing fee whether the item sells or not and keeps the item until the sale is complete or cancelled. The PC sets the % of the item's value that he lists it for. Roll a percentile the next day and then once a week thereafter. If the % is met or exceeded, a buyer offers the asking price.

Example: 1000 gp item listed at 80% (800 gp). PC rolls a 15% - no offer. Next week the PC rolls an 85% - a buyer offers 800 gp for the item. The Order sells the item to the buyer, keeping 100 gp for itself and giving the seller 700gp.

My Campaign Website

 

[Larcen]

I do this in my Waterdeep Campaign:

Have the PC wizard join the Order of Magists and Protectors for 40gp. Then he can list the item on a bulletin board. The Order gets 10% of the items value as a listing fee whether the item sells or not and keeps the item until the sale is complete or cancelled. The PC sets the % of the item's value that he lists it for. Roll a percentile that same day and then once a week thereafter. If the % is met or exceeded, a buyer offers that %.

Example: 1000 gp item listed at 80% (800 gp). PC rolls a 15% - no offer. Next week the PC rolls an 85% - a buyer offers 850 gp for the item. The Order sells the item to the buyer, keeping 100 gp for itself and giving the seller 750gp.

My Campaign Website

Damn, I like that! And it's realistic too. Basically, you are saying you can get more for the item, if you are willing to wait for your price. Nice! I can live with that.

How do you adjust for various size cities?

Also, in your example, why would the buyer pay 85% when you were only asking 80%? SHouldn't it be if the roll is higher than your selling percent, you get your selling percent?

 

[KnowTheToe]

Show me the page number in the rulebooks that put magic items closer to the equipment 1/2 price category and not the commodity full price category

That is a stupid arguement. Show me the page that says you get full price or even 80 percent. Better yet, show me the page that says you can strongarm the DM until you get your way.

Really, how many shop owners do you know that would have a half a million dollars to give you for products it may take him years to sell. Very few independant shops even have that capital. Be glad your DM does not take this into consideration. Relax, it is a game. Your GM will give you the treasure he thinks is right for your campaign.

 

[Larcen]

That is a stupid arguement. Show me the page that says you get full price or even 80 percent. Better yet, show me the page that says you can strongarm the DM until you get your way.

I can't show you the page number, that's the whole point of this thread...did you miss it?

Everybody is telling me how they think things should work based on the real world and all I am asking for is a concrete example from the rulebooks. That's why this was posted in the RULES FORUM.

Really, how many shop owners do you know that would have a half a million dollars to give you for products it may take him years to sell. Very few independant shops even have that capital. Be glad your DM does not take this into consideration. Relax, it is a game. Your GM will give you the treasure he thinks is right for your campaign.

Half a million? Where did I say I had a +5 Holy Vorpal Keen Dancing sword to sell? However most shop owners who want to make any money in a major metropolis might be expected to have around 20k or so, no? If not, then forget them. How about eliminating the middleman and selling to other adventurers or nobles?

Again, if I stand to make another 5 grand so, I WILL put in the roleplaying, leg work, whatever. Be serious. Who wouldn't? Unless of course our DM expressly forbids any kind of attempt at getting more than half. But that's a different story and we always take his final ruling on anything. So no strongarming here. Believe it or not, since we could not find it in the rulesbooks, our DM liked the idea to post the question here to see if other people knew the answer.

Anyway, I AM relaxed. Really, I am enjoying this conversation!

 

[Coredump]

Yay Ridley, you hit it right on the head.

Man, tell this to our group's Wizard who took around 3 craft item feats just so he can sell them at a profite.
Sounds to me like you want to him to front the material costs, take the time, lose XPs, and STILL only break
even. Yeah, ok, THAT'S real economics for ya

Well, yes it is quite real. If he wants to become a merchant, and open up a store, and stop adventuring, and hang out all day waiting for customers, then sure, he can make a profit. But if he is going to make something, and try and sell it to a store, they need to make a profit; and 100% mark up is about right. (sorry, but it may be a bit low)


Remember, the store is not giving you what it is worth. You can't even say that the mark up is profit. The store doesn't profit unless it sells the item, and there is no guarantee that will happen, nor when it may happen.
So, typical shop owner buys 10 items, over the course of time, he can sell 3. He needs to be able to pay for all 10, plus expenses, plus profit from just those three items. *that* is why there is such a discrepency between buy price and sell price.

Now, it may be possible to take things 'on consignment', so you get no money until it sells, and may be able to get a larger percentage. But I don't like the njrpg put forth. It is just too easy. You have a 50-50 chance of getting 80% within 3 weeks; and that is just too quick for that much of a deal. (maybe make the check every 3 weeks, or once a month) Though I do agree, I don't think they should get more than what they were asking, no matter what the roll says. (unless you want to use a 'critical hit/miss' system of some sort)


Now, you could probably get more for it if you can sell directly to the person that wants it. But that takes more time/effort/etc. If that is what you find enjoyable, cool. OR you can take the lessor amount, and go back adventuring.

You want to talk about the real world, ok, I'll bite. In the real world if I create a unigue item, say a fine work
of art, that is extremely appealing to a very wealthy group of avid buyers, and I go to were a whole bunch of
these buyers congregate, you can bet I'll get top dollar for my item, maybe more if they start a bid war. Same
applies to selling magic items to adventurers and nobles in a major metropolis, IMHO.

Sure, *if* you find people that want exactly what you made. And *if* they have the money, and *if* they are willing to spend the money, and *if* they can't get it somewhere else that they prefer, and *if* they don't have someone they can commision things from, etc. etc. It is all these "ifs" that you are 'paying' for when you only get the 50% from a shop owner; because *he* now has to take all those chances, and pay for the rent, taxes, upkeep, etc.
Go ahead, check with an art store, I bet they pay much less than 50% for what they are selling. (art shows are different, and is more like working on consignment)


I am assuming you have read the pertinent passage in the PHB about this topic. It seems pretty clear that magic items are not considered a commodity item.

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(BTW, my wife has a business buying items from people, and then selling them to others; and she almost never will buy something for more than 30-35% of what she can sell it for.)

.

 

[Larcen]

Thanks Coredump for the long response.

Reading what you wrote made me realize why so many of us are not seeing eye-to-eye on this. Here goes...

50%-ers: Magic Items are expensive, hard to sell items that not a lot of people want, or can afford.

100%-ers: Magic Items are rare and much sought after items that certain wealthy people would flock to buy.

Want an example? If upon entering Waterdeep, the DM tells us that we see a sign on a wall advertising a magical sword in a certain shop, we will GO THERE as soon as possible before it sells. You betcha!

Why? Because the way our DM has been playing it, it has been very difficult to spend our hard earned loot on even lowly 1st level wands. They are scarce!! We have to beg, borrow and steal all the magic we have so far. So based on THAT, we figure this must be a magic starved economy. And based on the fact that WE would pay full price for anything magical just from the mere mention that it's on sale, it stands to reason that other adventurers would too.

And there you have it. At least in our campaign.

 

[Avatar28]

Now, it may be possible to take things 'on consignment', so you get no money until it sells, and may be able to get a larger percentage. But I don't like the njrpg put forth. It is just too easy. You have a 50-50 chance of getting 80% within 3 weeks; and that is just too quick for that much of a deal. (maybe make the check every 3 weeks, or once a month) Though I do agree, I don't think they should get more than what they were asking, no matter what the roll says. (unless you want to use a 'critical hit/miss' system of some sort)

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In regards to the example of selling the item at 85% of it's value when he only needed 80%. It really depends on how it's set up.

I.E. Is there a pricetag on the item? If so, then it would be silly for someone to pay more. Or is it more like make me an offer type thing. The person came in and offered 85% of it's value. If you're doing that way, I would even make it where if you roll max (100%) then roll the percentile again and that's what the person offered for it. Who knows, maybe they were really desperate to get their hands on it. Maybe they suck at appraising, who knows. From the description, I got more the impression of the latter.