[Sensitive question] Is there cultural appropriation in gaming?

[Janx]

In the context of Robear, probably not. But I can't agree as a generalized principle that we need concern ourselves with only physical harm.

Well as you note, there's other kinds of harm. But there's also people being so thin skinned they think everything is an offense.

Apparently during Shriver's speech, one audience member turned to their parent and said (it was quoted in a follow up retort by Shriver) "Mama, I can't listen to this."

When a person can't even listen to a person with an opposing viewpoint who isn't insulting races, genders, or whatever some other protected group I can't think of, then I think the problem is the listener, not the speaker.

This is the crux of the absurdum argument, where someone takes it to the extreme and says "I want to avoid this extreme, so I won't budge"

The problem is apparently we really do have actual examples of extremism on this cultural appropriation thing. So we've gone from telling white folks "hey, don't say the N word or dress up in blackface" which seemed like a good idea to stop doing to apparently actual schools forbidding dressing up for Halloween. Actual authors chastising other others for writing fiction with characters that aren't the author. Models being scolded for wearing fashions (that they didn't design) incorporating elements from other cultures. Foods being disallowed to be served to certain races (like sushi).

There's being polite and choosing more diplomatic words and being respectful. Then there's being expected to know every sensitive topic and no-go territory so you don't violate a Safe Zone or commit a Micro Agression like wearing a Police Lives Matter shirt in the grocery story in front of a black cashier (true story, I had to explain on our neighborhood forum how a BLM person might take offense to that). People do NOT know everything that is offensive to everybody else.

So where we are headed is no role play, no fiction, no comedy, no fashion, no music. No culture. Because all of these things violate somebody's absolute right to no be exposed to something that offends them or incorporates culture or ideas that are the creator's own.

Unfortunately, there really are people who are trying to guide us toward this absurdity. Rather than sucking up that they might be exposed to something, and have to tolerate it. Because Tolerance is another one of those skills we were supposed to have, along with Consideration. It takes both, not all of one and none of the other.

 

[BigVanVader]

Also, it's almost impossible not to offend someone with something that you said, or did, or created. Superman is offensive to a great number of people: People who dislike the idea of aliens, people who don't like seeing illegal immigrants walking around, people who are uncomfortable with the religious undertones of Superman as a character, people who are uncomfortable with Superman being white, people who are extreme Batman fans and hate any other superhero, etc etc etc etc it goes on and on.

Anything you create is going to offend someone on some part of the planet, at some point and time. Even if it will only be offensive 200 years from now, even if it's made prior to some horrible tragedy that the creator couldn't have anticipated or predicted. Being mindful that you don't create something 'horrible' is an admirable goal, but at what point does it interfere with the process of making art?

And whose offense is more important to take note of, when creating said art? I'm probably biased, because I think a piece of art should be created and protected even if every single person on earth hates it(which is a ludicrously unrealistic concept, but bear with me.), but that's just me.

 

[aramis erak]

Yeah, but you could just dress as Geordi without painting your face, right? Because the costume is paying homage to a character that you love(as briefly as he appeared), whereas the painted face holds deeper implications. But the costume itself is fine.

Be very different if one matched LeVar Burton's skin tone vs using a Burlesque Blackface, too. The burlesque blackface is clearly a racist thing.

I've had to do cross-ethnic makeup - we spent 4 weeks on it when I took a theatrical makeup 300-level course. African-american is actually not terribly hard to do right... but few who try will bother to do it right.

Edit to add:
And if done right, it will take a close look to realize it's a makeup job.

While I think casting RDJ in Tropic Thunder was a bad move, at least the makeup team did it right...

 

[MichaelSomething]

Isn't American culture built on appropriation?

Take pizza for example. It's considered super American to eat pizza, but it came from Italy. We mostly use our hands to eat it. Italians mostly use a fork and knife...

You could say we're twisting how pizza is eaten to suit our own ends!

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

As a couple of people- usually on different sides of the issue- have pointed out upthread, "appropriation" is somewhat of a misnomer. "Disrespect" would be more accurate.

 

[Riley37]

Yeah, but you could just dress as Geordi without painting your face, right? Because the costume is paying homage to a character that you love(as briefly as he appeared), whereas the painted face holds deeper implications. But the costume itself is fine.

Indeed. A Starfleet uniform and a visor over the eyes, and "Captain, it's like nothing I've ever seen before", that should suffice, without matching Levar Burton's skin color. Also, as has been pointed out, the relationship between race and culture isn't always the same. Roddenberry imagined 23rd century Earth having different dynamics than 20th century USA, and Geordi LaForge might have quite a different background than, say, Nyota Uhura (whose name comes from Swahili).

 

[Riley37]

...clear thinking is of no use whatsoever to a self-appointed priesthood. If the arguments were clear and understandable and free of double standards, what use would you have of a priesthood?

Wow, there's a whole lot of that post I'm not gonna address. Mostly the part that isn't specific to TRPG.

Those lines, though... whoah, where did you get your ideas about religion, clerics, and priests? I am aware of some religions which more or less fit your description; also many religions which don't fit that description. In the church I attend, clergy officiate weddings and funerals, they comfort the grieving and counsel the conflicted and help couples stay together (or if they must part ways, part with minimal wreckage) and sometimes take a turn serving meals at a soup kitchen. Some of them harbored escaped slaves, back in the 1850s; some of them helped Jews escape from Germany, in the 1930s; some of them marched in the Civil Rights movement, in the 1950s (one of them was killed for doing so); today they're doing similar work. They serve in many ways, none of which involve absolutions or prostrations. They've studied religious writings more than most of us do, and they offer their interpretations, but they don't assert the final word, they don't claim any more connection to divinity than the unordained. As a youth advisor I've worked closely with a few of them. "what use would you have of a priesthood?" - Well, clergy have occasionally had a role in pulling teenagers back from the edge of suicide. I think that's something worthwhile. YMMV.

I know people who've had terrible experiences with religion, and I can't blame them for "once bitten twice shy". But whatever you think of the religion or denomination you're most familiar with, and its clergy, don't insult mine.

 

[Riley37]

Would you feel offended if a Japanese person roleplayed as a white guy

Depends. Generally not. But if his character emphasized every negative stereotype of the gaijin, then yes.

 

[Janx]

Depends. Generally not. But if his character emphasized every negative stereotype of the gaijin, then yes.

Or. You could just take it as a lesson in perception.

Instead of pitching a stink about how somebody else sees your culture, you could observe and see where those stereotypes came from. Because stereotypes exist because we are highly patterned creatures. You could learn if maybe there's something to them.

Because even in offense, there's is a truth of "you're we tend to be like that, don't we."

 

[Morrus]

Or. You could just take it as a lesson in perception.

Instead of pitching a stink about how somebody else sees your culture, you could observe and see where those stereotypes came from. Because stereotypes exist because we are highly patterned creatures. You could learn if maybe there's something to them.

Because even in offense, there's is a truth of "you're we tend to be like that, don't we."

What? You think that we should view negative stereotypes of black people as an object lesson? Because it's black peoples' fault?

I'm sure that's not what you meant.