D&D 5E Sentinel+Polearm Master+Quarterstaff+Lance+Mount?

[famousringo]

let's agree that the DC to get out of the grapple is ridiculous at mid levels, but ok, the target lose one action to leave (but he can stay and attack you). You still lose one action to shove prone, and that is the big deal of grapple (but the enemy probably will succeed to leave the grapple in his turn). A fighter can shove and damage at same time with trip attack, and the damage is bigger than the beast. An open hand monk would have 2 attacks of flurry blow to do this, and can stun the targets. And we don't need to compare with the efficiency of a barbarian grappler or a moon druid.

If you get a grappler beast, you don't fly and need to stay in melee as a tank, that you're not. So you need to choose.

Beast master is a cool building, but we need to admit that comparing his efficiency with other it is hard to find a worse option.

Yes, I expect grapple to break. Target can stay, but I don't see how it can attack you apart from legendary actions. It's action was just used to escape the grapple, so it can't multiattack. Snare it again on your next action if it doesn't oblige by trying to escape.

Restrained is a better condition than prone. I favour the frog for this reason. No need for prone at all.

Level 12 Fighter that grapples > Trip Attacks > attacks once with advantage will do 2d8 + 1d10 + 10 = 24.5 damage, expending a superiority die and offering a strength save on the trip.

Level 12 Beastmaster with frog will do Bite > Bite with advantage > attack with advantage 1d8 + 2d6 + 15 = 26.5 damage, expending no resources and offering no saves.

Why can't Beastmaster tank? Beastmaster ranger can grapple with an AC of 20, has d10 hit die, can self heal (not as good as Second Wind, granted), applies disadvantage and/or controls movement of up to three foes. Fighter can grapple with a shield to get AC 21, but then is stuck with unarmed strikes while grappling and can't grapple two foes.

Nobody's going to argue that beastmaster is OP, but this seems like a viable build to me, with some real advantages over other grapplers. I hope I get to try it out some day.

 

[zaratan]

Any target grappled can attack you, there isn't any statement agaist that, he only can't move. So grappling without another condition isn't really useful agaist an enemy that make good melee attacks.

yes, restreined is a much better condition, but is basicly the same of a grappled and prone target for melee attacker.

about the comparison: a grappler fighter will have dueling fight style, so the attack is 2d8 +1d10 +14
remember that is way easier to let the frog condition than the fighter grapple, and in the second turn, the fighter will do 3 attacks for 3d8 + 21, the frog need to release the creature to attack again. But a fighter grappler isn't a good option in fact, because fighter can have polearm master + sentinel +gwm, make the target prone using trip attack in the reaction and doing up to 5d10 + 1d4 + 75 and rerollig 1 or 2, 4 attacks with advantage and using precision attack if needed. Just let another guy grab that target.

if you want a grappler, the name is moon druid x / rogue 2. you can grab gargantuan creatures, you have high str and expertise, you can cast spike growth and drag creatures using movement + dash + bonus action dash, and with longstrider you can imagine the damage. And the target will have a hard time to get out of that grappling.

 

[famousringo]

Any target grappled can attack you, there isn't any statement agaist that, he only can't move. So grappling without another condition isn't really useful agaist an enemy that make good melee attacks.

yes, restreined is a much better condition, but is basicly the same of a grappled and prone target for melee attacker.

about the comparison: a grappler fighter will have dueling fight style, so the attack is 2d8 +1d10 +14
remember that is way easier to let the frog condition than the fighter grapple, and in the second turn, the fighter will do 3 attacks for 3d8 + 21, the frog need to release the creature to attack again. But a fighter grappler isn't a good option in fact, because fighter can have polearm master + sentinel +gwm, make the target prone using trip attack in the reaction and doing up to 5d10 + 1d4 + 75 and rerollig 1 or 2, 4 attacks with advantage and using precision attack if needed. Just let another guy grab that target.

if you want a grappler, the name is moon druid x / rogue 2. you can grab gargantuan creatures, you have high str and expertise, you can cast spike growth and drag creatures using movement + dash + bonus action dash, and with longstrider you can imagine the damage. And the target will have a hard time to get out of that grappling.

Misunderstood you when you said "stay". I thought you meant stay after breaking the grapple instead of moving off, not stay *in* the grapple and continue attacking the tank. If the target wants to sit in the grapple and make attacks with disadvantage against an AC 20 ranger, I call that situation: Mission Accomplished.

The frog only needs to release if it wants to attack a different target. It can chew on the same guy all day long.

Glad we agree that the fighter should leave the grappling to the beastmaster, though. After all, the beastmaster is giving advantage to the ranged attackers, while the fighter is actually working against them.

 

[zaratan]

attacking someone that is grappling you don't give you desadvantage. Only if you're restrained or prone, or something else.

the frog can't bite again if he's restraining someone, you will lose 2 attacks. But he can release, and attack again restraining again (but he can miss too).

Yes, I agree with you that this BM build is viable (and more than that, it is fun to play), although some huge flaws agaist some monsters. But if you looking for the most optimized option possible, will never be a BM. If you want the best grappler, probably will be a moon druid with expertise.

 

[famousringo]

attacking someone that is grappling you don't give you desadvantage. Only if you're restrained or prone, or something else.

the frog can't bite again if he's restraining someone, you will lose 2 attacks. But he can release, and attack again restraining again (but he can miss too).

Yes, I agree with you that this BM build is viable (and more than that, it is fun to play), although some huge flaws agaist some monsters. But if you looking for the most optimized option possible, will never be a BM. If you want the best grappler, probably will be a moon druid with expertise.

I'm talking about the frog. That's where the restrain and disadvantage come from (well that and Entangling Strike). I get that the crab doesn't apply disadvantage so readily. We seem to be missing what the other is saying a lot.

Really disagree with your reading on the frog. "...and the frog can't bite another target," to me, clearly allows the frog to bite the same target.

 

[zaratan]

Really disagree with your reading on the frog. "...and the frog can't bite another target," to me, clearly allows the frog to bite the same target.

you're right, I reread the text only now.