Sept 2nd News - I wont be doing Scales of War

[Fenes]

If you post, "Those fools at WotC! They are stupid, arrogant, and quite possibly deceitful!" well, you are quite unfairly and ignorantly bashing WotC, something we also see quite often here on ENWorld, in particular on this thread.

I'd say that if WotC, as posted above, do not even follow the advice about needing plot outlines in their own product (El Mahdi pointed this out, p. 141 DMG, Campaign Outline), then it's neither unfair nor ignorant to call that stupid, arrogant, and possibly deceitful, depending on their motives.

Preaching water and drinking wine and all.

 

[Jack Colby]

WotC's attitude in this is, frankly, insulting. I was 100% behind 4E and very excited, but it seems like at every turn they are trying to drive me away as a customer. I'm extremely disappointed with them. They are coming across pretty badly, and like they don't collectively understand how to support an RPG. I know there are good, smart, gaming individuals there, but as a whole, they are failing miserably to retain my interest in the "brand".

 

[Jack Colby]

The line of reasoning that argues 'we are owed a synopsis from the very beginning so I know exactly what is going to happen before I invest my time' is flawed.
Using that reasoning, every fiction author should be expected to summarize their entire story arc at the front of the very first book of a series.

Quoted for NOT-truth. What are you thinking, man? Adventure modules are fiction for the DM to read now? They are game aids, nothing more! If this attitude is widespread, I seriously worry about the future of this hobby. Published D&D adventures are not works of fiction!

 

[Jack Colby]

It sounds very much like Mr. Buehler trying to cover up for some other problem - like not enough time or funds for digesting the internal outline and producing one for the public.

While I would understand a statement like: "We would love to do an overview article for players and one for GMs, but we could not keep our schedules for other articles in Dungeon and Dragon, if we would do this. So we can't promise ayou anything along htis lines."

But to call it a knowing decision? We'll, he's reaping what he has sown.

I would stronlgy advise him to take a class in marketing...

I think just the opposite is true: they know exactly what they are doing, and it is all marketing. They want to "hook" us on the adventure path so we feel like we must follow it (and eventually pay for it, installment by installment) so we can see what happens next. They are treating it just like a story, which is the fundamental flaw. The coverup excuse is just adding a layer of insult to the initial mistake.

Is Lorraine Williams back in charge over there?

Sadly, I've been feeling that vibe as well, and quite strongly. You are not alone.

 

[Keefe the Thief]

Hmm, i wanted to post something, but the board ate it. Oh well. I´ll just save the thread in my folder labelled "ridiculous overreaction" and post something later.

 

[amethal]

I think you've hit the nail on the head there. What they really don't want to spoil is the design direction of future products.

If that is their reason, why keep it a secret and post instead a different reason? Surely that would be "WotC lying".

It also isn't a reason I agree with. I can see nothing but good in knowing, to pick a random example, that there's a brown dragon at the end of the adventure and hinting that there will be a brown dragon in Draconomicon 1. Its a way of using Dungeon to generate interest in Draconomicon 1, same as the printed magazines sometimes used to do.

Of course, the problem would come if it turned out the brown dragon had become a lilac dragon by the time they came to write the actual adventure. However, since the entire adventure path is "intricately plotted" (or whatever the expression was they used) then such a change is very unlikely.

Also, even though it makes logical sense that they'd be including material from upcoming books, I wouldn't doubt that they anticipate an outraged cry from people "being made to buy the new books."

Why would people have to buy new books? Surely they will include the stats for all the creatures in the adventure itself?

I know reading 1st edition adventures encouraged me to buy the Fiend Folio (I already had both Monster Manuals) so I could read the flavour text on the various FF critters, but it certainly didn't force me - the stat blocks themselves were already there in the adventure for the DM to use.

 

[Qualidar]

If that is their reason, why keep it a secret and post instead a different reason? Surely that would be "WotC lying".

It also isn't a reason I agree with. I can see nothing but good in knowing, to pick a random example, that there's a brown dragon at the end of the adventure and hinting that there will be a brown dragon in Draconomicon 1. Its a way of using Dungeon to generate interest in Draconomicon 1, same as the printed magazines sometimes used to do.

You make more sense than I do. Perhaps Jack Colby's right about it being a marketing angle.

Why would people have to buy new books? Surely they will include the stats for all the creatures in the adventure itself?

I know reading 1st edition adventures encouraged me to buy the Fiend Folio (I already had both Monster Manuals) so I could read the flavour text on the various FF critters, but it certainly didn't force me - the stat blocks themselves were already there in the adventure for the DM to use.

Would you really put this past them? Perhaps I'm just too jaded, but given the vibe I get off of WotC these days this is just the sort of thing I can see them doing. I actually expect it.

 

[vazanar]

SSquirrel - I think that's probably the most reasonable request.

Would teasers for each module be enough to make people happy?

Personally that would be enough for me, teasers on all the modules in the AP. It's what I got used to from Paizo. Do it with the third/fourth module's issue of dungeon (like AoW). That way I have a better idea of ways to fit my characters backgrounds in without invalidating parts of the map/plot. Worked great in Age of Worms/Rise of Runelords/Crimson Throne. I know any mega module I've run, I at least read the overall outline.

 

[Goumindong]

Again, I see nothing in his post that says that. He says that the impact will be lessened if you know about surprises ahead of time, which is an accurate statement. If you knew Vader was Luke's father before watching that scene in Empire, then it wouldn't have the same impact.

There's a difference between "it won't have the same imoact we want if you know ahead of time" and "it will hurt you to know this."

A better way to say it would be "if you knew Vader was Lukes father while watching A New Hope" it won't have the same impact.

Because that is what we are talking about. Players may know information that materially affects the game long before a point where it could even be considered to be "out"

There are other considerations as well. Writing an overview is a good aide for finishing a product. But publishing an overview constrains the final product to a path that might not end up being the best, or most faithful to the authors intent.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

A better way to say it would be "if you knew Vader was Lukes father while watching A New Hope" it won't have the same impact.

Because that is what we are talking about. Players may know information that materially affects the game long before a point where it could even be considered to be "out"

There are other considerations as well. Writing an overview is a good aide for finishing a product. But publishing an overview constrains the final product to a path that might not end up being the best, or most faithful to the authors intent.

Except nothing about this has anything to do with players. It's about DMs.