Sept 2nd News - I wont be doing Scales of War

[Ximenes088]

You know, I don't remember people being outraged that WotC wasn't providing a 1-30 campaign outline for the plotline started in KotS. The H/P/E sequence of modules are intended for sequential play, yet I don't remember people taking umbrage at the lack of a full depiction of events in an H1 sidebar. The only difference I can see is that WotC's breaking Scales of War into about twice as many parts as the H/P/E module series.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

What's with all this 'spoiler' nonsense anyway?

I've probably played Keep on the Borderlands a half dozen times and Against the Giants at least twice. It didn't get any less fun.

I also watch movies, like the Matrix and the Crow, multiple times, and knowing how they end doesn't 'spoil' them for me. I suspect that the vast majority of people who paid good money to see Titanic knew that the boat was going to sink. Ditto for the shock ending of The Passion of the Christ, which was 'spoiled' a couple thousand years ago...

Well, at least in context of movies, there is the fun of watching it the first time and being surprised by all the twists ant turns, and the fun of re-watching it and seeing how they were set-up.

In case of adventures - well, my group played a lot of Torg, and also re-played a lot of the modules. Our recent "revival" of Torg -with two players not familiar with it, and one having played or run them all - was a lot of less fun for the player that knew all the plots.

"Don't ask me! I do even know what's in the fracking cabinet!" (It were two heavily armed combat robots...). Yes, plot twists can be less enjoyable if being spoilered.

 

[Fenes]

"Don't ask me! I do even know what's in the fracking cabinet!" (It were two heavily armed combat robots...). Yes, plot twists can be less enjoyable if being spoilered.

Plot twists can be even less enjoyable if run by someone who doesn't know them. Ever had an adventure where the DM didn't really get all the info he should have gotten, through lazyness, or lack of language skills?

I had a campaign done by a GM who didn't really read the campaign background info, and the further we were in, the less recognisable the adventures were (I read the book afterwards). In the end, the campaign was not much fun (too much railroading, not enough flavor, no foreshadowing, no customising, followed by more "railroading to fit the square peg into the round hole").

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Plot twists can be even less enjoyable if run by someone who doesn't know them. Ever had an adventure where the DM didn't really get all the info he should have gotten, through lazyness, or lack of language skills?

Yes, I think so. That's also a bad experience. But I wouldn't count on an overview really helping such a DM. (at least the DM in question)

 

[MerricB]

You know, I don't remember people being outraged that WotC wasn't providing a 1-30 campaign outline for the plotline started in KotS. The H/P/E sequence of modules are intended for sequential play, yet I don't remember people taking umbrage at the lack of a full depiction of events in an H1 sidebar. The only difference I can see is that WotC's breaking Scales of War into about twice as many parts as the H/P/E module series.

There's actually a pretty big difference between a Dungeon magazine Adventure Path and the H/P/E series: the latter uses much less of an overall plot. Each of the H modules is self-contained, albeit with a couple of links that leads into the next one if you feel like it.

Certainly with the three Paizo adventure paths, they each had a significant plot-arc that is absent with the H series. I can't comment on the P series until I see it.

Then too, we tend to know months ahead of time of the general theme of each printed adventure through advertisements.

Cheers!

 

[tomlib]

Overview

I was just directed to this topic although I've contributed to the discussion at WotC. It's nice to see some ideas on both sides of the issue although the rancor is off putting. I'm only a player in this campaign and not a GM so I have not read either of the first two adventures. Much of my information comes from discussions with our GM. Please take that into account.

For those who defend WotC's decision to withhold the Overview of Scales of War from the GMs I offer up this argument:

I think, I could be wrong of course, that much of the cry about the Overview is related to the nature of the first two adventures, Rescue at Rivenroar and Bordrin's Watch.

Rescue at Rivenroar starts out in a similar fashion to Paizo's Burnt Offerings the first module in the Rise of the Runelords AP. In BO the third encounter, Die, Dog, Die!, involves the group rescuing Aldern Foxglove. The Paizo text of this reads as follows:

"The man in question is named Aldern Foxglove (CN male
human aristocrat 4/rogue 3), a noble destined to play an important
role in the next adventure, but whom for now is merely another​

frightened citizen."

Some issues:

1) RoR has nothing of this nature to help a GM plan.

2) No NPC is mentioned as being important to the campaign in RoR or BW.

3) RoR and BW take place in completely different towns.

4) There is a huge geographical error in regards to the flow direction of the Elsir River.

5) This first supplement in Dragon specifically designed for SoW really had almost nothing to do with SoW at all but was simply a group of generic character backgrounds not related to Elsir Vale by anything other than a few name drops.

5) The geography of Elsir Vale is mostly a mystery and the towns the campaign will be visiting just as much.

6) The original maps in RoR neglected to show key locations in Brindol or even the location of the titular Castle Rivenroar.

7) Errors pointed out by the community about individual articles were completely ignored when the compiled magazine came out. This is contrary to what was promised.

All of these things, I think, have led the GMs running or planning to run this campaign to the conclusion that WotC is not on top of the situation. SoW will require several years of effort to complete. In my opinion the cry for an Outline is in some ways simply an effort to determine if WotC actually has a plan for this campaign.

It seems clear to me that they are, at best, very disorganized. I suspect (but cannot prove) that Randy Beuhler is lying about the having a detailed and well planned out synopsis. I think that is not an unreasonable opinion to have at this time and accounts for the personal affront many have taken to his reply.

WotC can run an AP any way they see fit but I think most, even those who disagree with the idea of releasing an Overview, would agree that they are doing a poor job with quality control and communcating with their customers.

Peace to all and happy monster slaying!

Tom

 

[El Mahdi]

I was just directed to this topic . . .

. . . Peace to all and happy monster slaying!

Tom

Interesting theory. I don't know if anyone outside of WoTC really knows why, or if, we are being lied to, but this was a very reasoned and thought out chain of logic.

Despite what I don't know, however, if it was ever revealed, or we (customers/fans) ever found out, that Randy Buehler had been lying to us about this - personally, I would never buy another WoTC product (or even download a free one) as long as he was working at WoTC (and maybe not even after, if it was a "management" decision involving more than just him).

Anyways, Peace to you to. Maybe we'll bump into eachother in some monster lair somewhere.

 

[ShadowDenizen]

Just to add my 2 GP to the topic...

To me, as someone who both plays and DM's, I see no reason to NOT put out an overview of the series, because people are going to reading this AP for the next YEAR AND A HALF!! An overview would serve to give DM's a chance to plot things in advance, and foreshadow where appropriate.

I think what upset me the most about this topic is the tone of the post that WotC put up; IMHO,it was QUITE condescending, and there was no "positive spin" to it at all. Indeed, it sadly served to alienate me EVEN MORE for WotC than I was before.

 

[reveal]

A new open letter to Randy Buehler

 

[ThirdWizard]

I think it will only hurt them in the long run, and eventually I think they will release a summary.

Who was right? Come on, who was it?

In case anyone wants it here.

[sblock]
Scales of War Heroic Tier

Episode #3: The Shadow Rift of Umbraforge
On returning from the Vents, the characters search for clues behind the well-armed orcs that sought passage beneath the mountains around Overlook. Their investigation takes them beneath the city, and then to another plane!

Episode #4: The Lost Mines of Karak
A dwarven clan of Overlook—once renowned for their wealthy mines—has fallen on hard times. But the rediscovery of one of their mines could spell relief for the city’s war efforts, and redemption for a once worthy name.

Episode #5
The heroes are summoned back to Brindol by an unexpected source. Their new ally then guides them to a long-lost fortress now inhabited by all manner of foul creatures.

Episode #6
The characters return to Overlook to find the city marshalling for war. But something rotten lurks in the city’s heart, and further investigation reveals that the city faces a threat as great from within as the army marshalling at the gates of Bordrin’s Watch.
Scales of War Paragon Tier (Episodes #7–12)

The scope has changed. By the end of the heroic tier, the heroes finally learn that the war in Elsir Vale is on a much larger scale than they imagined. Not only their small slice of the world is in danger, and the forces of good need powerful champions. The characters venture across the planes as a small, elite strike team, pursuing missions few champions of their world would dare to undertake. There, they must make new alliances to further their war effort, while sundering those of their enemies. Finally, they uncover the magnitude of the true threat facing their home.
Scales of War Epic Tier (Episodes #13–18)

The stakes increase. As the heroes cross into the epic tier, they learn that their world is truly under siege from all sides. Pursuing numerous threats only they can deal with, they single-handedly have the potential to turn the tide of war in one direction or the other. As the balance teeters on a razor’s edge, disaster strikes the characters’ allies, and they must act swiftly before their world—and possibly more—is lost to an age of darkness unlike any other.
[/sblock]