Sequence of a Mind Flayer attack

[Da Man]

Yeah, that's it.

Let's say that all hell is breaking loose and a Flayer manages to successfully get ahold of one of the heroes, and gets all tentacles attached....the countdown begins.

The hero attempts to wrestle free, but fails!

I want heroic possibilities for the hero's comrades to successfully get the Flayer off.

Already, two good examples were the Bull Rush and maybe the Trip....

But, I was sort of trying to figure out a good way of ruling if someone simply wanted to come up there, drop his weapons, grab ahold of one of those tentacles and rip her off!

I guess this is directed to the creative minded out there. I don't think there is a rule, verbatim, that would cover it (or, the rules would not allow it, which makes the point moot, 'cause the scenario (which is in my campaign) will allow it=)

I continue to thank everyone for their efforts here.

Jones

 

[kreynolds]

He means that the 2nd PC (the one who isn't about to have his brain sucked out) doesn't want to use "Aid Another", but actually walk up to the Mind Flayer and rip his tentacles away from the 1st PCs head.

And that's exactly what the aid another action is for. Any other kind of intervention or interference, other than killing the mind flayer with a spell or nasty hit, for example, would require a house rule.

If the grappled PC's initiative has already passed, and the Mind Flayer goes before him in the next round, Aid Another is completely useless.

Yup. That's one of the things that makes the mind flayer so deadly.

So it's up to the 2nd PC to try to break the grapple on his own.

What can I say. Sometimes your friends die.

 

[kreynolds]

I guess this is directed to the creative minded out there. I don't think there is a rule, verbatim, that would cover it (or, the rules would not allow it, which makes the point moot, 'cause the scenario (which is in my campaign) will allow it=)

There isn't a rule that covers this. Honestly, I do understand what you're going for, that heroic moment and all, but if the mind flayer attaches all its tentacles, the player's had their chance to save their friend. If they fail, their friend dies. It happens.

But, if you really want another option besides just killing or otherwise incapacitating the mind flayer before it's too late, or using aid another, then you definately will need a house rule. With that said, you should try the house rules forum. You'll get more input there.

 

[Da Man]

I absolutely agree that the rules do not specifically deal with a situation like this, but it is my goal to use the rules to answer my question (vs. a house rule.) I did contemplate starting this in the House Rule thread, but I'm not really all that interested in introducing completely new mechanics.

The crux of the matter is that I am looking for someone who might have a way to read a current rule that could make it apply to this situation.

As an example, a poster might have given an example of how disarm may have worked in this situation, wherein the tentacle is a weapon.

Someone did do a good one with the Bull Rush above. There is no 'specific' rule for what would happen should someone bullrush a Mind Flayer attached to a target, but that DM did a superb job (in my opinion) of coming up with a way to deal with it which might bring about heroic flare.

There is also the Trip action, which may actually be better as I picture the savior pulling the damnable tentacle off of the pc's head.

I am hoping for other 'rules' suggestion.

Heh...and by the way...the Mind Flayers are the least of their worries=) (in fact, to this group, they are hardly as deadly as you imply, or at least compared to what has enlsaved the Flayers and is the real enemy of this adventure) You can be sure that I do not come here to find ways to NOT kill my players. I gleefully slay them in a heartbeat. But, that said, I also get great enjoyment out of heroic, last minute actions that save the day=)

 

[JDowling]

I would allow another character to "enter the grapple" and if they beat the flayer in all necessary checks "break a pin" against the target character to rip off all the tentacles, and free his ally.

I mean, when you are helping out your friend grappleing and you break a pin you are basically ripping the offender off your friend... same idea with the flayer trying to suck his brains out - you're ripping him off.

Simple, within the grapple rules, and to me at least it makes sense.

 

[mmu1]

And that's exactly what the aid another action is for. Any other kind of intervention or interference, other than killing the mind flayer with a spell or nasty hit, for example, would require a house rule.

Yeah, and this is where that whole "DMing" thing comes in. Saying "just use Aid Another" when that amounts to saying "because of a quirk of the rules, you have to spend your entire action standing there with a thumb up your butt as someone gets his brain sucked out" makes no sense, and it doesn't help someone trying to run the encounter.

And incidentally, as far as the actual grappling rules go, the "Break Another's Pin" action is precisely the mechanic you'd want to use when dealing with this kind of situation. It's a "house rule" if you follow a mind-numbingly literal reading of the rules because the Mind Flayer doesn't techanically have a "Pin", but it's a perfect solution to this problem, if it's the spirit of the rules that matters.

 

[LGodamus]

hey flayers dont have a whole heck of alot of hitpoints ..just kill the darn thing.........
Its obviously one of the dumb ones since its grappling with multiple opponents still coherent

 

[kreynolds]

Yeah, and this is where that whole "DMing" thing comes in. Saying "just use Aid Another" when that amounts to saying "because of a quirk of the rules, you have to spend your entire action standing there with a thumb up your butt as someone gets his brain sucked out" makes no sense, and it doesn't help someone trying to run the encounter.

There is initiative. If your friend is about to get his brains sucked out, and it's not your turn, well, that just sucks. I don't know what to tell you. But it isn't a quirk of the rules either, as there is another option, thanks to JDowling. If an ogre swings a club at you and you die, are you going to complain to the DM that it's a quirk of the rules that your cleric friend couldn't save you fast enough with a healing spell because it wasn't his turn and that he should fix it?

And incidentally, as far as the actual grappling rules go, the "Break Another's Pin" action is precisely the mechanic you'd want to use when dealing with this kind of situation.

Then use it. What's the problem? I know I'll use it now. I'm just surprised none of my fellow gamers spotted that either.

It's a "house rule" if you follow a mind-numbingly literal reading of the rules because the Mind Flayer doesn't techanically have a "Pin", but it's a perfect solution to this problem, if it's the spirit of the rules that matters.

Well, having read the "Break Another's Pin" passage just now, it occurs to me that the spirit of the rules has nothing to do with this, as it is a perfectly viable option within the rules. House rules also have nothing to do with this, as it is within the rules. I only suggested house rules earlier because I wasn't aware of this option, and apparently, neither were you, so let's not get all huffed up about this. Both of us were unaware of this option, but now we know, and we're better off for it. Right?

 

[mmu1]

There is initiative. If your friend is about to get his brains sucked out, and it's not your turn, well, that just sucks. I don't know what to tell you. But it isn't a quirk of the rules either, as there is another option, thanks to JDowling. If an ogre swings a club at you and you die, are you going to complain to the DM that it's a quirk of the rules that your cleric friend couldn't save you fast enough with a healing spell because it wasn't his turn and that he should fix it?

Well, having read the "Break Another's Pin" passage just now, it occurs to me that the spirit of the rules has nothing to do with this, as it is a perfectly viable option within the rules. House rules also have nothing to do with this, as it is within the rules. I only suggested house rules earlier because I wasn't aware of this option, and apparently, neither were you, so let's not get all huffed up about this. Both of us were unaware of this option, but now we know, and we're better off for it. Right?

a)Initiative - The whole point of my objection to your argument was that it was the "friend's" initiative, and you were saying all he could do was "Aid Another", which was useless.

b)Since my earlier post was made from work, without access to the PHB, I couldn't reference the page number or the specifics, but I was certainly right about the general mechanics of it. But if it makes you feel better about being wrong to think I was wrong about it as well... Hey, whatever.

 

[Da Man]

Thanks for the positive feedback above.

Your efforts will be utilized, in part or in whole, in the upcoming sessions!

Jones