Setting the DC for a Tumble

[tburdett]

I've been thinking about the following changes to make Tumbling a little less powerful.

If the defender is unable to make an attack of opportunity you use the standard tumbling rules.

If the defender is able to make an attack of opportunity he makes an attack roll at his highest attack bonus. This roll sets the DC for the tumble.

If the tumbler fails the roll by less than 5 he must stop in the first square that the defender threatens. He suffers no other penalties.

If the tumbler fails his roll by more than 5 he must stop in the first square that the defender threatens and the defender is allowed an attack of opportunity.

 

[Painfully]

looks okay at first glance. Have you played with it a few times?

 

[karn smackdrim]

what about mutliple combatants? would you just roll the one with the highest BAB or roll all of them and take the highest or have a add version like defenders roll and add to the dc +1 or 2 for every opponent be on the first that is allowed attks of op

 

[Jolly Giant]

This method's worked out great in my campaigns:

The standard DC (15) is the minimum. If the tumbler beats that DC, then the opponent(s) treathening the tumbler gets a Reflex save. If that save beats the result of the tumble-check, he/she/it gets an attack of opportunity. To me and my players it makes sense that the better reflexes an opponent has, the harder that opponent should be to tumble past.

Similarly, we feel that when using Bluff to feint in combat, actual combat skill should play a big part. A first-level rogue should stand no chance feinting a twentieth-level fighter, no matter how maxed-out his Bluff-skill is! So we use a house rule that says base attack bonus is added both to the feignters Bluff-check and the opponents Sense Motive-check.

Both the above rules have added realism and fairness to our games, while at the same time being very quick and easy to use.

 

[Painfully]

I think the adding BAB to bluff/sensemotive is probably not the best thing to do

 

[darkbard]

you may want to check out monte cook's alternate rules for opposed checks like tumbling on his website over at www.montecook.com. they're similar to your proposal but more fully fleshed out.

 

[tburdett]

looks okay at first glance. Have you played with it a few times?

We just started using this last session. So far it seems to be working just fine. The players actually asked for something like this because they were tired of having their casters mobbed by lower level tumbling creatures (the goblin bum rush).

I am working on a similar system for casting defensively. The current rules do not seem to take opponent ability into account at all. A 20th level Fighter is not any harder to fend off than a 1st level commoner with a stick. I'm not sure that the players will be as happy about this change.

 

[Painfully]

Isn't that what skill points are for?

 

[wolff96]

Our house rules, which are about six months old and seem to be fine so far...

When you wish to tumble through or around someone, each creature that would normally get an AoO gets to make an attack roll. Each creature with an attack roll higher than the Tumbler's check result is allowed to make a normal AoO. Movement is not affected unless the tumbler is trying to move through an occupied square.

For the Concentration Check to cast defensively, it works the same way. You make your concentration check with a penalty for the level of the spell you are casting. The enemy gets to make a normal attack roll. If his attack roll is higher then your concentration check, he gets to make an AoO as normal. (We also modified the Combat Casting feat to negate the penalty to the concentration check for the level of the spell being cast.)

And for scrying, we used Andy Collins variant rules.

NOTE: Failing a DC check for Concentration or Tumbling does not mean you get hit. It only means that the monster gets the opportunity to make a normal AoO.

-------------------------------

Basically, the other DM and I talked about how no one put any points into tumble, scrying, or concentration once they could make the (very easy) fixed DCs in the PHB consistently.

So in his campaign (which started about six months ago), he instituted these new rules. So far, so good. Very little extra dice rolling.

 

[Ravellion]

The standard DC (15) is the minimum. If the tumbler beats that DC, then the opponent(s) treathening the tumbler gets a Reflex save. If that save beats the result of the tumble-check, he/she/it gets an attack of opportunity.

I used this as well, except without the minimum of DC 15. It will just be a very easy reflex save to make. Also, when someone tumbles through an occupied area, he gets -10 to his tumble check.

Rav